Ability - Melee: Dual Wielding and Brawling Focus

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Dakhal
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Ability - Melee: Dual Wielding and Brawling Focus

Post by Dakhal » Mon May 16, 2016 2:21 am

I've had this ability for the better part of since it ever existed in the first place. Of course, I've noted from the very beginning that the reasons of my having it at all were pretty pointless.

Why is that?

Well, my character already has a decent skill in Two Weapon Combat. Now when I look at this ability, with a skilled character all I can see is one thing: It is a gated ability purely for the purpose of unlocking skill gains.

I'm pretty understanding of these things, it makes sense if your character is going to be using a weapon in each hand consistently to have an ability such as this.. but in the manner it's currently implemented, I can't say that I agree with it existing at all. It's similar to making an ability called Melee: Shields, purely because you intend to use a shield in your off-hand and that ability will let you unlock the skill gain of Shield Use.
Melee: Dual Wielding as of the time of my post has this description:

Information on Melee: Dual Wielding:

You have the knack for wielding a weapon in each hand.
(OOC: Unlocks skillgains in two-weapon combat. Keep in mind that this isn't a simple principle of 'two means twice as effective' - dual wielding can be awkward and comes with its own balances and penalties.)
This is well and dandy, but in the event that you've had this skill for a period of time, what inspiration do you have for keeping it? Abilities are meant to be a defining part of your character- but by the information that is given to me here, I can see that in time, I will no longer need to have this ability to perform well with a weapon in each hand. And if abilities are supposed to be so defining of a character, why is it that one can perform just as well without this ability- this defining factor of a person.

Now, it's possible that the skill description is just misleading and it possibly weights the rolls in some way that it doesn't speak of, or perhaps dual wielding is just difficult as all heck without it in the first place.. but it doesn't say that as it is. And if I'm to be very simple about this, I don't really agree with the ability in the first place. I see no such other gating outside of Brawling Focus (and I absolutely despise that it is a necessity for brawling, as I see no other gated abilities making it harder to swing a sword, which does far more damage and in a more potent damage type).

Every ability that I see on the tree, exempting those two (and the obvious Melee/Range Focus) give an immediate bonus to your character, by means of a new verb to be used in combat or an increase of roll weight- even Tactics Mastery gives benefit in that you can swap your Tactics far more regularly than people without it.

Now, I won't deny that I am biased when it comes to these two abilties. They are, after all, a part of my core kit and it is natural for me to analyze their shortcomings. But I have had these as a part of my kit for a long time now, and I can say that neither of them have proven to give me any great amount of benefit like something else would- and please don't sell me that abilities aren't meant to be equal, because I already pointed out that every single one on the tree gives an immediate benefit exempting the four I have pointed out.

I'm not a GM, nor am I your boss. But I am a player here and while I may not have always been the greatest, I have always tried to deliver to everyone an experience that they can enjoy. I'm requesting that these abilities have a look taken over them, because as they are, they don't truly give any benefit to ANY character, not just mine.
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Lassyn
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Re: Ability - Melee: Dual Wielding and Brawling Focus

Post by Lassyn » Mon May 16, 2016 5:51 am

Really good points, and something to look at! I can't promise you anything (not the dev or balance gm) but I can promise to make sure there's a discussion.

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Jirato
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Re: Ability - Melee: Dual Wielding and Brawling Focus

Post by Jirato » Mon May 16, 2016 5:56 am

Sorry, maybe it's just the Monday morning blahs, but I can't really wrap my head around what you're asking for here. Can you be a bit more concise?

It sounds like you just want us to get rid of brawling combos and dual wielding?
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Re: Ability - Melee: Dual Wielding and Brawling Focus

Post by artus » Mon May 16, 2016 6:11 am

I think it means this, and I totally agree :
Nowadays, people just use dual wield for gains only, along with finding the right time to abandon and free up the slot. The same goes for brawling focus, although the point of brawling focus is more than just gain.

If it's so, why not have melee : shields as ability slot, and add some slots for us to at least support too many abilities like that, or make them all free of slots for something more like abilities? I mean, some chain abilities already take our slots already, not to say elemencers with that elemental abtitute thingy that got one useful slot totally. Some abilities shouldn't be abilities, may be that's what Dakhal means.
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Jirato
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Re: Ability - Melee: Dual Wielding and Brawling Focus

Post by Jirato » Mon May 16, 2016 6:11 am

Nevermind, I see the point of the post now.

There is a bug that is allowing people that pre-date the general ability system to use dual weapons even without the ability. This will be corrected.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

Dakhal
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Re: Ability - Melee: Dual Wielding and Brawling Focus

Post by Dakhal » Mon May 16, 2016 1:26 pm

To explain better, my original want was to see that they were both just flat out removed in the first place as they didn't truly present honest abilities. I did present the possibility that Melee: Dual Wielding be made into something more. I assume that what will be done now is that if one lacks the Dual Wielding ability, regardless of their actual skill, the game will read it as 0. This will allow people to still dual wield, but there will be quite a lot of mistakes in doing so- which is the intent of the skill in the first place. (Your character has a knack for wielding a weapon in each hand.)

With this new information coming to light, I feel better about my choice in taking this ability even though my character never needed it in the first place, simply because it is something that my character would be good at. And I thank you for that.

Now, moving to Brawling Focus: This is a skill that I just flat out don't like at all, and it was implemented in a time where people were complaining about how good brawling is. With all the changes to brawling and the inability to channel with it, excluding the Claw, I can't truly agree that having an ability to unlock the brawling combos (You know, what brawling really is and is now neutered without taking it). I can agree with Brawling Focus giving you more flexibility, such as it currently has with he Disarm ability, but to flat out restrict it as a possibility is silly.

To make an example, it's like making an ability called Swords Focus and then limiting you to one strike with a longsword no matter what until you take the ability to unlock your second strike. You use rapiers? Well, you had three strikes before.. but.. sorry, because it was determined too powerful, you've just one now UNLESS you take this seperate ability.

I've not really seen any brawlers in a long time. Nobody wants to invest so deep into a skill that does the least amount of damage with the weakest damage type (except perhaps Whips).

Again, thank you for taking this into consideration so quickly, I really do appreciate the speed at which this was responded.
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