Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Druidic warriors seeking perfection through physical prowess.
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Laroremas
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Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Post by Laroremas » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:24 pm

Let me preface this by saying I've had an excellent time playing a Dwaedn Wyr. Please don't take anything I write as ungratefulness. I'd like to open a discussion about some changes that transpired before I took a break from CLOK as well as some that took place while I was taking said break.

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Firstly:

Wolf's Cunning (the bug in question) passively has a chance to reduce your enemy's dodge roll. This is awesome. Unfortunately, this also means that any potential skill gains while fighting an equally-as-strong opponent will be negated because said dodge roll will be brought too low

- Suggestion: give us a way to disable Wolf's Cunning (potentially easier way) or code in a way that ignores that particular, core gameplay mechanic (probably way harder). Either will work nicely.

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The Apathy meter, while likely unfinished at this particular juncture, makes it exceedingly difficult to utilize the only redeeming aspect that Dwaedn Wyr have: high damage output.

I appreciate enabling the use of Bear Claw at any point, however, this ability in of itself also increases the amount of Apathy you generate. This causes a number of problems.

1) The Bear's Strength shout also increases Apathy. This is a much needed boost to the Dwaedn Wyr's damage output. As I recall, you can only use this shout TWICE before having to wait; if you are actively using Bear Claw between the first shout and the second shout attempt, the Spirits will be too apathetic to your cause and you won't be able to use the Bear's Strength shout. Ouch.
EDIT: you can only shout strength once if you claw more than twice afterwards.

2) Mighty Roar. This particular shout is extremely powerful and it makes complete sense for it to remain as it is in the realm of how it interacts with the Apathy meter.

Here is a potential solutions to the problem that most Dwaedn Wyr who wish to use their abilities (as they relate to the hidden Apathy meter) may be interested in. I've tried to approach this in a way that promotes balance, because BEFORE the Apathy meter, a group of 50 zerglings legitimately could not kill me.

- Suggestion: fashion some method for Dwaedn Wyr to reduce the amount of Apathy the Animal Spirits regard them with. I believe that landing a killing blow on something stronger than themselves (i.e. a beast/enemy with a higher MELEE skill) should immediately clear the Apathy meter as that particular battle would have been a true test of the Dwaedn Wyr's abilities and subsequently this would be pleasing to the Spirits they rely on in combat. A similar bonus could be permitted for things slightly weaker than the Dwaedn Wyr (with a difference of about 50-100 MELEE skill) to allow for Dwaedn Wyr to actively participate in events that typically involve the GMs throwing a ton of NPCs their way. This is otherwise not an issue in scenarios in which breaks are possible, etc.

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I'll add a little more here in a bit. In short, my primary concern at present is that I feel as though I'm playing a character that is the CLOK equivalent of an asthmatic sprinter or a one pump chump, as opposed to the unrelenting murder machine that was gimped a little too much by the Apathy meter.
Last edited by Laroremas on Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Lysse
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Re: Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Post by Lysse » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:45 pm

In regards to the Apathy meter, anything that triggers Victory Rush could have a chance to lessen Apathy, perhaps.
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Laroremas
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Re: Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Post by Laroremas » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:49 pm

The most reliable method of triggering Victory Rush is using an ability that increases Apathy, otherwise that would be a good suggestion. I made that one to Rithiel several months ago when the Apathy meter rolled out.

It would pigeonhole Dwaedn Wyr into using weapons if they wanted a realistic method of being able to fight more than two things before having the Animal Spirits be entirely apathetic toward them.

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Deraxian
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Re: Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Post by Deraxian » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:42 am

I can't really say I've ever been in a situation where apathy was a concern to me.

My usual battle consists of shout strength; shout fury; shout war; bullrush; battle, occasionally throwing in an additional bullrush where needed. I can usually clear a room of 1 to 3 critters before the 30 second shout timers is up, and I've never had apathy messagespecially unless I was just goofing around and usinget bullrush every single time the critter stood.

As for wolves cunning, it would be nice to see the skill gain stuff use base rather than mod skills/rolls, but everyone who uses tactics to artificially lower their rolls for grinding would hate that.

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Rias
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Re: Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Post by Rias » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:07 pm

Wolf's Cunning "ambushes" where it lowers the enemy's defense should still give gains based on the un-lowered potential, but with a small reduction, same as attacks from hiding. A toggle to disable it is a good idea, though.

The point of the apathy was so Dwaedn might actually have to choose sometimes whether and when to use an ability, rather than just use them all, all the time. You can use them all at once at least at the start of a fight, which makes Dwaedn absurdly powerful. I've done it myself, and I've also watched it happen with several people. It's glorious to behold, but it shouldn't be the constant case - why would we require you to keep using those shouts over and over if we intended their effects to be active constantly? It's the same reason we added a cooldown period to Rapid Fire for archers - it's supposed to be something you use occasionally - even frequently - but not constantly.

I like the idea of certain events causing the apathy levels to go down. I'll also play around as a Dwaedn for a while and see how fights go and how quickly I run out of favor, but on the occasions I've used my NPCs I've only really ever noticed it when using Mighty Roar, or when I failed to bullrush several times in a row and burned through all my favor by using it so many times to try and knock the darn thing down.
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Laroremas
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Re: Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Post by Laroremas » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:17 pm

Thanks for looking at it when you do.

I could be wrong about this, but Bear Claw seems to drive the Apathy meter into the negatives, so perhaps that's why it felt as though using it was keeping me from using the Strength shout or anything else for that matter. This is probably where the majority of my issues are coming from in regards to it seeming like my favor is constantly drained.

My main concern and worry was that because Dwaedn Wyr are essentially a one trick pony (offense based) it was troubling that my access to the Strength shout after a single fight seemed to be nonexistent. I'm certainly for the Apathy meter because I did feel as though my guild was really really REALLY strong before it was added but I think a bit more leniency might be good. I'll be more than content for the Wolf's Cunning toggle and potential ways to decrease apathy, though.

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Laroremas
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Re: Current Bug(s?), Suggestions and Concerns

Post by Laroremas » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:16 am

Just wanted to say that I really like the apathy tweaks. It feels extremely fluid now.

THANKS.

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