Firearms discussion

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Firearms discussion

Postby Rias » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:01 am

From another thread:

[quote=Utasa Agent 0102]My only request as this point, as I have somewhat discussed with you in game, is PLEASE buff firearms a little. I don't expect a huge buff but just enough so I can have a little more "bang" for my buck.

Firearms are very costly to work with and the benefits *besides looking cool* are few. If you would just boost the min and max damage by 10 points I think that would be enough to make them feel more balanced with the other weapons I have seen in this game.[/quote]

I'm a big fan of firearms and am open to suggestions to improve them if it seems necessary. Let me list a few of the pros and cons they have already:

Pros
- They can be fired (not loaded) at Engage position.
- Pistols can be dual-wielded (currently fairly buggy, but it works)
- Total firing/loading time for pistols is faster than bows and melee weapons - 3 seconds to load, 1 second to fire.
- With a pre-loaded revolver (expensive but commonly available), you can start off a fight with 6 shots in as many seconds. Dual revolvers makes that 12 shots in 12 seconds. One could even carry around several pre-loaded revolvers (or even single-shot flintlock pistols) and switch off as necessary.

Cons
- Expensive initial price compared to other weapons. One-time cost.
- Require powder for each shot, which equates to paying riln for each shot and requires managing a second consumable resource in addition to ammo. Very annoying to run out of powder while out hunting.
- Require more actions to use - you must load, then fire. The barrage command makes this trivial, and being able to pre-load revolvers arguably turns this into more of a pro than a con.

As firearms stand currently, I think the pros far outweigh the cons. Yes, they are annoying to manage in comparison with other weapon types (there are times I just switch to a melee weapon or bow for the simplicity to take a break), but they can be extremely powerful if you're willing to put up with that and the extra cost. Please feel free to point out things I've missed and discuss further. I'd be more than happy to improve firearms, one of my favorite weapon types, I just need to be convinced that they need it.
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Postby Jaster » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:10 am

The only thing I can think to improve is using the barrage command while dual-wielding (which you've already acknowledged is buggy). The auto-reloading doesn't quite work with two revolvers. To me, that's a minor nuisance that I have been perfectly fine sucking up (12 shots in 12 second with slightly more effort to reload!? yes please!).

Also, maybe speedloaders for revolvers that you can pre-load. So instead of owning six revolvers, you can own two revolvers and 4 speedloaders. Though.. that might make it too easy to pwn (especially for those of us lucky enough to have access to special stuff.. coughimportscough).
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Postby Utasa Agent 0102 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:56 pm

I feel from a balance standpoint that for the 12 seconds that you fire with dual revolvers you should be able to maintain a damage average comparable to one of those big two-handers. Granted if someone were to have the funds to keep more than two revolvers and keep switching out they could maintain that damage but it would be extremely expensive (and time consuming) to do so.

I see revolvers and firearms in general as a kind of variable damage. With one firearm single loaded in barrage you should be able to do about the same damage as a dagger. With one revolver for 6 seconds fully loaded you can do the same damage as a large one handed weapon. With two revolvers for 12 seconds you should get the same damage as the big weapons or spells.

It is also good to keep in mind that 1 second in game time is about 2 seconds in real time and 5 seconds in game time is about 8 to 9 seconds in real time. As you add more round-time checks things seem to slow down rather than one large round-time check, is this right or am I imagining things?

I also agree with Jaster, if dual wielding and barrage could be fixed and both flintlocks/revolvers were allowed to be fired and reloaded under the same 4 to 5 seconds round time that would go a long way to helping to ease some of the expense and annoyance.
Last edited by Utasa Agent 0102 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:46 pm

Melee weapons and archery weapons are effected by channeling Pyromancy, will firearms also gain a bonus for such?
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Postby Rias » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:28 pm

No, no ranged weapons receive the melee "flare" benefits from channeling. With melee, you're already holding the weapon in hand, and the hands are where conjured elements typically originate, so it's not hard to just send a burst of that element along your weapon as you swing to accompany a melee strike. It's not actually connected to your weapon, it just happens at the same time as the strike, so you could imagine it as "touch" spell effect.

There's no way to attach a dormant flare to a ranged projectile that will flare up once it strikes a target.
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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:55 pm

I thought you could set arrows on fire and it game a similar effect, sorry for the confusion.

On a productive note.. will there be different kinds of shot? Solid and Bird shot?
Last edited by Nootau on Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rias » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:06 pm

You can set arrows on fire, but that's different than just channeling and firing. You're lighting the arrow on fire, then firing it, and the fire persists since the arrow is burning over time.

So far we've got two types of firearms ammunition: The common shots, and another type available exclusively to thieves due to their smuggling connections.
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Postby Myke » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:06 pm

How about flaring bullets, which can be made by the NEW ENGINEERING/FIREARM GUILD! ...riiiight? ..Keep hope alive!

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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:11 pm

Myke.. Lets say there is a 'ENGINEERING/FIREARM GUILD' What would they do differently that what s already available? I thought Mercs was a pro firearms Guild.
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Postby Makkah » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:12 pm

Tinkerers!

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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:14 pm

What would 'Tinkerers' do that others are not able to do? Everyone can blacksmith.
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Postby Makkah » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:16 pm

Make guns. Make CLOCKS. Make Steampunky stuff.

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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:19 pm

Why does that need to be a Guild and not something everyone can do given training?
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Postby Makkah » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:21 pm

Because guilds rool.

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Postby Myke » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:41 pm

Mercs aren't very pro-firearms. They definately support melee far better. An engineering guild that would let people craft special types of shot or firearm upgrades, amongst other guild-only recipes would have a lot of appeal I think, as well as giving some new ranged-friendly abilities.

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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:52 pm

You are looking for a 'Range Only' Guild? Also the engineering guild sounds a lot like the merchant guild rather than someone different.
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Postby Rias » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:57 pm

For what it's worth, we (the staff) want and have some basic ideas for an engineering/tinkerer guild. Why a guild? Because guilds offer further specialization on top of simply learning appropriate skills. Will you need to be in this guild to be a tinkerer or engineer? No. But it would offer a lot in the way of accommodations and abilities that compliment/enhance engineering.
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Postby Makkah » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:58 pm

There is no merchant guild.

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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:06 pm

Sorry 'Traders' Guild. <Same thing>
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Postby Rias » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:10 pm

Arguing semantics for fun and profit.

While we're at it, the next person to talk about the "rogues" guild is going to wake up in an alley with their bags much lighter.
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Postby Nootau » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:19 pm

Now... How about the topic is two handed guns(rifles) rather than one handed(pistols)?
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Postby Myke » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:38 pm

"For what it's worth, we (the staff) want and have some basic ideas for an engineering/tinkerer guild. Why a guild? Because guilds offer further specialization on top of simply learning appropriate skills. Will you need to be in this guild to be a tinkerer or engineer? No. But it would offer a lot in the way of accommodations and abilities that compliment/enhance engineering."

Could we maybe get a teaser of potential content this guild MIGHT (with disclaimers) have? It's hard to hold off on joining a guild but with something so potentially ideal coming down the pipes, it's worth waiting, but still the concern exists that when the time does come it might not be what it was expected to be (due to wild assumptions).

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Postby Rias » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:01 am

Ideas so far:

- Convenient engineering workshops
- A supply of engineering materials, including some exclusive materials unattainable elsewhere
- Abilities to speed along engineering skills (such as Basic Training and Mastery abilities)
- Some unique plans/blueprints unattainable outside the guild
- Won't necessarily be firearms "centric", but will have access to unique firearms/ammunition/plans
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Postby Nootau » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:32 am

Is there a difference between Iron pistols and Steel pistols?
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Postby Rias » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:27 pm

Nope.
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