More uses other than combat!

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More uses other than combat!

Postby Orris » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Here are some ideas. A lot are based around water because I'm biased, sue me.

Alder wands have the fire pattern in them. Elemancers could use them to light fires if they don't know pyromancy, similar to zapping them in fights. So if you go to light a campire or a lantern and you don't have firestones, but you have an alder wand or staff, you use that instead.

I can produce steam and boiling water, can I use these to cook please? You would have to keep channeling for the whole time to maintain the steam or boiled water, since the elemancy matter disappears once you stop channeling. Since I can move the water around with elemancy I wouldn't even need a pot, maybe stick a fish on a skewer, then channel the steam or boiled water around it for a while and voila, boiled fish.

Channeled bath! For those people who take offense when I spray them down with water, I could channel and maintain a globe of water that others can use to wash themselves off, as if near a river or a water barrel. Once the channeling stops, the globe disappears. Because of this it couldn't be used to fill things like water buckets, because the water will disappear anyway.

Use aeromancy or hydromancy to move an item out of the room. I can't think of any really beneficial use for this but it would be fun to spray some debris out of the room with water or air to tidy up a bit. Just a fun cantrip to use your powers.

Hydro Fountain: Just for showing off. Make a fountain of water. More impressive displays with journeyman and mastered hydromancy. I would be willing to write descriptions for this.

Fireworks for pyromancers! As a bonus for mastered pyromancers give them the ability to make different colored flames, and more spectacular displays of course too.

Geo, hydro, aero, pyro barrier. This would cost a lot of energy to maintain but you could put up a barrier in indoor places to prevent creatures from going in that direction. This would be useful in a scenario like an invasion where you're in a group and want to prevent monsters from getting into town or something, put up a barrier to stop them while your group fights them, so no monsters will slip by and get into town. Or maybe a criminal is trying to escape town, put a barrier over the gatehouse entrance so he can't get out.

All I can think of right now, I'll probably add more later. Anyone else have ideas for elemancy usage that isn't based around fighting? Since it has been said the school is not a combat school I really think this could use some attention. Plus elemancers just want to show off right? I love cantrips.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby xavier » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:24 pm

i think all those are great ideas, though with the barriers I'd suggest only the geo be a physically unpassable barrier, fire barrier doing some fire damage when moving through, water gives the passer some round time maybe 5 seconds or so, air some suffocation damage or something.
Also your fountain idea might be a little redundant with the globe of water. why not just go for something like a magically created spring in the ground that vanishes with the loss of channelling? just a thought

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Orris » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:17 pm

The fountain doesn't serve a functional purpose, it's just there for fun. Instead of a boring globe of water, the fountain is a way to show off your mastery over water with an intricate display. I don't think you could create a spring in the ground with the way elemancy works. That would require displacing earth to create the spring (already explained as impossible in CLOK) and/or creating water in a place separated from you by a physical barrier (the ground) and as far as I know, that's impossible with CLOK elemancy. I'm pretty sure you need to have clear access to where you want the element to end up, like it has to be able to physically travel from your hand to that space.

With the barrier idea, water and air can already be used with the compression pattern to be so solid that they're as effective as hitting someone with a solid clod of earth, and even uncompressed they can knock you off your feet and into another room, so I think with a special pattern incorporating compression or just maintaining that level of throwing force, a sufficient barrier could be formed to completely block passage. It wouldn't be huge, and that's why it would only work in indoor areas. Making a barrier that gives you a few seconds roundtime to pass it wouldn't be very useful and would defeat the purpose of the barrier idea. For fire I think it should have a chance of doing lethal damage by passing through it, to make it at all effective. Like it would do a lot of fire damage to every part of your body, including the eyes. Otherwise who isn't going to just walk through it and put on a bandage later? So with the fire one you could try to pass through it, at the very high risk of ending up dead on the other side.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Orris » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:02 pm

More ideas. Please keep in mind that these don't always have a beneficial effect but may just be ways to make elemancers feel they have more use and fun with their elements other than killing things. Some can have no real appreciable effects but still be good for RP! They could be tied to the different levels of mastery so you don't have to spend an ability point on a spell that has no real effects but is just for RP. Or spend recognition points to learn them in the library or something!

Rain (hydro mastery): Puts water up high to fall back down to the earth similar to rain, or more accurately like a really big sprinkler. Drenches everyone in the room and waters all farming plots a little every few seconds. You have to keep channeling to keep the rain going.

Gale (aero mastery): Makes the the room windy as long as you keep channeling. People occasionally get a few seconds roundtime as they fight the wind. Maybe it takes a few seconds to walk into and out of the room. Small items get blown around or out of the room.

Combine the above two (it would take two elemancers, one master aero, one master hydro) to make your own personal tempest!

Sandstorm (geo mastery): Flecks of sand swirl all about the area. No it doesn't require aeromancy, since geomancers can already move and propel their geomantic earth without it. Just apply a simple spiral pattern and let 'er rip. Could occasionally cause very short stuns/blinds as people get sand in their eyes, mostly just for show though.

Sparkfield (pyro mastery): Harmless glowing sparks swirl around the room in a basic spiral pattern. Provides some light, and is pretty! Good for setting the mood at a romantic dinner or when you "accidentally" get lost somewhere dark with an attractive member of the opposite sex.

Swimimgsphere (hydro mastery): Yes, create your very own swimming pool! You can't say it wouldn't be great! It wouldn't last long since it would take a lot of energy to maintain that much water, but how fun would that be? This could be done in the form of a large water globe above the ground to make it simpler (basic sphere form instead of an irregular form with too many variables).

Flightsphere (aero mastery): Li ke the swimmingsphere but with air, you get the feeling of flight while in the sphere. Fun!

Geoshelter (geo mastery): Create a temporary little dome of geomantic earth, it only lasts as long as you are channeling, but good for making a temporary shelter or something. It could even shield you and your group from attacks and stuff.

Flamesphere (pyro mastery): I can't think of anything to do with this except make it like an improved Pyro Shield, maybe it surrounds the whole group and does a lot more damage? It could also warm the group up quickly in cold temparatures and weather, and melt snow in the area. It's hard to think of noncombat application for fire a lot of the time!

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby xavier » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:28 am

good points all, i'm still not completely familiar with the elemancer side of clok but i do appreciate the explanation.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Orris » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:00 am

Dancing waters: Just something that looks cool, you make two jets of water dance and weave around the area. You could target someone to have the waters dance around them.

Waterworks: like fireworks but with water and can't be seen at night or be colored.

Water juggling: Like dancing waters, it just looks cool juggling water around.

Miniature vortex: Another thing that would just look cool, conjure a miniature water vortex. It could be cast at smaller objects to spin them around, just for fun.

Water pillar: This creates a water pillar in the room as long as you channel. People can use it to clean themselves off or to splash each other with! It does not fill water containers because it will disappear. With hydro-freezing pattern you can make it an ice pillar!

Ice mirror: Just to be cool, pun not intended. Makes an ice mirror that you see your reflection in when you look at it, and better yet you can target it at someone to show them their own reflection. Then when you tell someone they're in need of a bath and they don't understand, you can send the mirror at them and they see a reflection of themselves all covered in blood.

Steam warmth: Warm yourself or someone else up with warm, NOT scalding mist and steam. Make an option where whenever you channel you're surrounded in warm mist, then I can make those trips through cold places without going to get my heavy clothes!

Water jump: Works the same as aero jump but requires more channels. You should also be able to use it even without something to climb, just to impress people. You just propel yourself up in a high water jump and land back on the ground in another burst of water to slow and cushion your fall.

Water cushion: This could be automatic when you're channeling water and you fall or get thrown through the air, you conjure a bunch of water at your landing point to cushion your fall and reduce or completely negate any falling damage. If you want to be generous let us do this automatically for anyone in the group, or put one at the bottom of a hard climb so when people fall they land on the water cushion and don't get as hurt or at all. This could be used for aeromancy as well.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Isiaa » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:41 am

We can't make ice(sadface) so Ice Mirrors are out... though I wonder if there could be some sort of Harden Pattern for master levels or something for water and earth? And perhaps something similar for Air and Fire but making them more volatile?

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Vinz » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:29 am

You'll have to go see Orris in action me thinks.
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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby qinweiqi » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:41 pm

I was reading back through the wall descriptions and I quite like them. For Geo walls, it would be quite impassable, and I like the idea that walking through a wall of fire is inherently a bad idea. For an Aero wall, I was thinking it would be neat if one could press through it, but had to successfully resist a knockdown effect (possibly a very difficult one, like dodging a nova) - then the person passes through if they succeed, otherwise they get knocked down (and possibly stunned), but no damage. For hydro, I was thinking it would be nifty if it forced people to make a swim check to pass the barrier. People that are too encumbered would be barred as per usual for a swim check, but for everyone else it'd just be a matter of time and energy (much like the aero barrier). With those, I thought of how to make the pyro barrier more fun as well. To pass through requires successfully resisting a fear effect, failure results in low damage (minor damage, one place?) and success results in more damage (light to moderate in lots of places) but you get past the barrier. I think that would capture the terror of trying to walk through a wall of flames.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Alicia » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:30 am

A lot of what I am seeing suggested is something I think we wouldn't need mechanics for and could just use emotes to create? Since I've joined CLOK I've used my elemancy in lots of emotes. I first channel the element I want to add an effect in and then start emoting! I can jump cliffs with basic aeromancy right? Well what keeps me from floating a few feet off the ground to hug someone on a horse? I can create firebolts with basic pyromancy? Why not be able to make little balls of fire that bounce around through the air and splinter off into smaller and smaller sparks until the dissipate entirely?

What I am saying is that with some imagination (instead of coding) all these effects are quite plausible if we just stick to the basic mechanics presented in the lore of elemancy and sticking to realistic levels of skill based on what level of mastery we have in the element we're playing around with.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Kunren » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:22 am

I guess what most people are scared of that because they don't know what is allowed and what isn't. Elemancy has been stated to not have very much fine control, and the GMs are super against any kinda of flight(even I imagine emoted levitation). But idk i think mancy emotes are always fun myself.
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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Alicia » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:28 am

Kunren wrote:I guess what most people are scared of that because they don't know what is allowed and what isn't. Elemancy has been stated to not have very much fine control, and the GMs are super against any kinda of flight(even I imagine emoted levitation). But idk i think mancy emotes are always fun myself.


We fly up and down cliffs and through tunnels all the time. It's not perfected controlled flight but it is a form of it. Falling with style! A brief gust up wards a few feet to latch onto someone doesn't seem impossible.

I agree with not having fine tuned control at lower levels but a journeyman and master elemenacy should have more control, and especially a master should have fine tuned control of the element he conjurs.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Lysse » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:06 am

Alicia wrote:
Kunren wrote:I guess what most people are scared of that because they don't know what is allowed and what isn't. Elemancy has been stated to not have very much fine control, and the GMs are super against any kinda of flight(even I imagine emoted levitation). But idk i think mancy emotes are always fun myself.


We fly up and down cliffs and through tunnels all the time. It's not perfected controlled flight but it is a form of it. Falling with style! A brief gust up wards a few feet to latch onto someone doesn't seem impossible.

I agree with not having fine tuned control at lower levels but a journeyman and master elemenacy should have more control, and especially a master should have fine tuned control of the element he conjurs.


There is a very large difference in a spell that propels your body, or slows your descent, using a gust of wind, and levitating up to hug someone. The latter is, I believe too fine and controlled to be possible with elemancy (though I could be wrong).
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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Fayne » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:28 am

The issue with control osn't so much a factor of the elemancer's skill, but rather a factor of the properties of the elements they conjure. Since it is established that these elements are not "true" elements, but rather something slightly different that can't even exist once the elemancer stops concentrating on it, I think it's rather safe to say these elements are quite unstable and difficult to control at best. This is why some elemancer abilities will actually damage the caster as well. This isn't bending from Avatar: The Last Airbender. This is unstable and not entirely understood magic that for whatever reason some people are born with the ability to harness.
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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Alicia » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:39 am

Fayne wrote:The issue with control osn't so much a factor of the elemancer's skill, but rather a factor of the properties of the elements they conjure. Since it is established that these elements are not "true" elements, but rather something slightly different that can't even exist once the elemancer stops concentrating on it, I think it's rather safe to say these elements are quite unstable and difficult to control at best. This is why some elemancer abilities will actually damage the caster as well. This isn't bending from Avatar: The Last Airbender. This is unstable and not entirely understood magic that for whatever reason some people are born with the ability to harness.


removing bending from Avatar (because I don't even try to compare the two so that's not in my thought processes) with skill comes control. With skill comes understanding. As you become more proficient, you understand how this unstable reaction is unstable, and thus can predict said instability and react accordingly. Also from the look of way things are said about Elemancy here part of the 'pattern' and the conjuration is the sheer force of will from the Elemancer. Again, more proficiency, the strong your sheer will is over that "element" and thus the more fine tuned control you should be able to wield, not just bigger and more awesome tricks.

If a master Aeromancer can summon a galeforce blast equal to being hit in the face by a hurricane, he should also be able to conjure up a soft whisper of wind that blows a single strand of grass over in a glade, or be able to breathe a word into his hand and send it on a breeze down the road a league to his ally. Not because he's bending the element or what ever, but because his sheer force of will is saying 'You shall only be strong enough to bend one blade of grass!' or 'You can travel far enough to send the sound of my voice over a league's distance'

NOW WEAVING- on the other hand, I can say without a doubt is going to be highly unstable and difficult to control. You're mashing these "elements" together to form new ones in chaotic ways. But the base elements themselves once brought above an apprentice level and even mastered should show a degree of control and reliability, such as a master Aeromancer being able to gently brush his hand and causing a lick of wind to brush aside his lovers bangs without fear of messing up her hair style or knocking her on her rear.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Skah » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:20 am

In some ways, elemancy is surprisingly limited. It's not "real" fire/water/earth/air, and really only effects things fairly near an elemancer, in a contrained manner. Carrying a word (how does the air selectively carry just one sound, and not anything in between?) a league away is probably beyond the capabilities of an elemancer. As is making a hurricane equivalent!

It's great that you're getting creative with emotes, but good RP gives the other person a chance to disagree with your interpretation of events. If you emote events that the other person doesn't believe are possible, they aren't under any obligation to act as if they occurred, which can get awkward!

There's a lot of great info on the strengths (and significant limitations) of elemancy, both on the boards and in-game.

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Kunren » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:09 am

the problem with going with the idea that you can become amazingly precise with the elements, is the amount of things that would then be possible with such surgical precision. The GMs would be overloaded with coding all the possible things, and the elemancers would gain so much useability that it would cover FAR more than a single guild should be able to. Perhaps if each of the elements were split into a different guild, with gurus for each working on them separately, then you could make an argument for the kind of precision you are talking about.
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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Orris » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:49 am

One thing you'll notice is that elemancers make extensive use of simple patterns. I don't think we're just making our elements do whatever we want them to as we think about it. We have to give them some kind of structured pattern to follow. The patterns are simple, like circles (nova), spheres (shield), spirals (the new really cool spiral spells at mastery level, which I assume require mastery because spirals are more advanced patterns with more variation and movement), and straight lines (regular casting at enemies).

The pyromancer campfire spell is literally a sphere of fire. A mage candle is a smaller version of that. Fireworks use a straight line followed by a sphere at the end for the explosion. I figure that's pretty advanced stuff for elemancy, being able to have a delayed change in the pattern at the end of the spell.

Edit: language (sorry! )

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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Rias » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:35 pm

I'm not especially learned in such matters, but I don't see how wind could carry along a whisper. Regardless, elemancers can't extend their conjured elements very far away from themselves - certainly not a league away. Pyromantic fireworks go pretty far, but I imagine they don't go quite as high as many of our real-world fireworks. Maybe, say, 200 feet? (That's not set in stone, FYI) Distance affects the conjuration - if it gets too far away, the channeler can no longer maintain it, and the conjuration dissipates.

Elemancy is much more methodical and restricted than "I will what I will, and the world will comply." You're channeling a conjuration into pre-determined forms (the patterns previously mentioned). The understanding, technique, and precision is quite limited, all things considered. I know it bums some people out, but elemancy is very restricted and limited in its usage by design. Elemancers aren't your typical fantasy mages that essentially command a secondary set of rules of reality - they're bound by very strict and unbreakable limitations, and those limitations are such that elemancy won't be threatening to replace, or even rival, conventional mundane technologies at large. It can certainly do some very spiffy and very powerful things, but again: severely limited, and that's by design.

Nuum is known to favor channeling over nonmagical technology. This doesn't mean they've completely replaced nonmagical technology with magical technology. It just means they've willingly eschewed nonmagical techniques as much as possible in favor of using magic instead. In many ways this actually sets them back, as they refuse to embrace mundane technologies in favor of their "superior state of being", i.e. their magic. It's all a big to-do about them trying to prove that they're better than the other races, as they are gifted with so much supernatural power, and they don't need to stoop to so much gross physical labor or use the common, lowly technologies employed by the rest of the world. It's largely a pride thing. If they got over it and embraced, for instance, the technological advances in neighboring Grum, and integrated it into their magical methods and practices - Immortals help the rest of the world.

And just to clarify, Nuum isn't cheating or cutting corners in the elemancy department. They can't do things that I'm telling Elemancers they can't do either. Nuum prefers and employs many magical methods in as many things they can, but that doesn't mean it's some nation built on magic alone. There aren't floating islands, they don't have magic-powered lamp posts along their streets, they don't stock their water supplies with hydromancy - all that would be either impractical, or impossible (hydromantic water doesn't hydrate you very well since it dissipates).

Now, they do enjoy some comforts and wonders that others don't because they're more advanced in some of their methods, techniques, and capabilities - but frankly, none of those specifics have been hammered out yet. At the very least, know that while magical ability rules in Nuum, it isn't a nation built solely on magic. There's plenty there that's mundane. It's not a completely different magical wonderland there. A lot of their magic usage is in the process, while the results are still mundane. For instance:
- Decorative architecture: using geomancy to sandblast and shape stone. The process is magical. The result is still very ordinary stone. It's not "imbued" with magic, or anything.
- Construction: Geomancy is great for providing weights/counterweights. Useful for moving heavy stuff around! Need a counterweight? No need to haul a bunch more stone over, just have some geomancers conjure up a nice pile of earthy boulders for you. Once the stuff is moved, the boulders dissipate. No need to move them again!
- Various cleaning applications. Need that kitchen floor cleaned? Blast it with some nice, scouring, boiling elemantic water. Once the conjured water dissipates, use some aeromancy to blast the remaining loosened debris into a container to be hauled off. And heck, use pyromancy to burn a lot of the remaining debris away.
- Hygiene: Hydromancy is great for this. Rather than burning fuel (wood is scarce in Nuum) to maintain warm water in a bath or a sink or whatever, just have a hydromancer conjure it for you. It dissipates when you're done, so that's handy, too - no cleanup/drying off required.
- Recreation/Leisure activities: All sorts of uses! Hydromantic water fights, instant conjured swimming pools (a wealthy household or funded event could employ a whole group of hydromancers to maintain a nice temperature-maintained pool for quite a long time), throwing people around with blasts of water or air, playing in sand, dirt, or mud, and not being dirty afterward (it dissipates!), competitions on who can conjure the prettiest or most impressive displays ... all types of fun stuff!
- Many student/learning pyromancers in Nuum probably enjoy employment as simple igniters and fire sources. It would be inefficient to have a pyromancer constantly channeling to keep a fire going for too long, but they can provide short-term very hot fires, and ignite fuel real easy for more long-term procedures.

Anyway. As you can see, all the above employ magical processes, but the end results are in no way magical. Nothing is imbued with magic, nothing "stays" magical, nothing is "enchanted." The shaped stone is just stone. The clean kitchen floor is just a clean kitchen floor. The burning wood, after being ignited pyromantically, is burning as normal, mundane fire.

That was a fun tangent!
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Re: More uses other than combat!

Postby Alicia » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:55 pm

Thanks for the clarifications and especially going more in depth about Nuumian society!

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