Ability Idea

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Ability Idea

Postby Kunren » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:03 pm

Let me start by saying I am very new, and have no idea whether this would be feasible or wanted, but I just thought it sounded interesting. What if you could create any knappable item while channeling Geomancy? With a set energy penalty based on the weight on the item created I would assume. Either at store bought quality, or quality depending on your geomancy skill. The material could be random, based on your geomancy skill, chosen upon creation, or a number of other things. In accordance with the rules of elemancy as I understand them, the item(s) would disappear once the geomancy channel is released. Just an idea to give geomancy a bit more utility.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Islet » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:33 pm

EDIT: tl;dr: Disclaimer, I think the idea is neat but doesn't seem feasible.

Original: Elemancy doesn't "create" anything, I've heard. It's like manipulating an psuedo-element. It's why we also cannot affect natural elements, such as tilling or digging with geomancy or drying with hydromancy.
When channeling the element, it's like converting energy into a physical form that'll hit your enemies and poof away afterwards. At least, that's how I see it.
There are, of course, examples of elemancy that doesn't poof away when it's cast. Flame candle, drenching someone with water, but there's usually IC explanations. I would love to hear them if I can though.
(Why water drenches, mage candle stays.)

EDIT: I misread your post. It's also incredibly draining to maintain any sort of shape or form, I'm assuming. That's why we don't see people walking around with literal ice spears and fire balls.
So I'm assuming your suggestion is something along the lines of "CHANNEL CREATE DAGGER" to make a stone dagger you can use temporarily? I don't think I've ever heard of anything similar in game with raw geomancy, not to mention that geomancy (pure geomancy, even when compressed) doesn't create solid rock. Mostly a loose collection of dirt, or a compressed collection of dirt.
There is certainly an obsidian spears spell which is something like fire, cryo, earth, but we don't have access to Cryomancy, and we don't actually get to hold that, I think. It's a projectile that dissipates on contact like all other spells.

Oh, on a side note, I think our patterns aren't that exact either. Most of our patterns are limited to compressing the volume of the projectile(compression), or directing the flow of motion around us (shield, nova). Even if I look at sorcery, for example, nether-claws are just nether that's taken form around the persons hands, right? Sorcerers don't have any noticeable form maintaining aside from ice barbs, but that's more like the long-lasting side effects of cryomancy. Likewise, the blessings of the Gaea to form thorns on staves is temporary, though I don't understand the lore behind it.

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Rias » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:41 pm

Using geomancy to temporarily provide basic item or tools is one of the potential abilities I'm considering for mastered geomancers. However, it'd really only be useful in emergencies and would never be as useful as having an actual item (of course, it'd just be cool to be able to do). As you guessed, the object would only last for as long as a geomancy channel was maintained. But yes, they'd likely be quite low-quality and low-durability, since as was mentioned, geomancy can't produce solid stone or anything too dense and durable (non-brittle?) because at that point the material would be too dense to be effectively affected by channeling and just dissipate.

Some basic elemancy laws:
1) Elemancy is the conjuration of elemental matter, and can only control said conjured matter. It cannot control existing natural matter.
2) Conjured elemental matter dissipates once it is no longer being provided energy to maintain it (i.e. a channel).

Sometimes, conjured elemental matter can persist by "bonding" to existing materials - this is primarily a thing as an explanation as to why people get drenched when hit with hydromancy, and why hydromancy can be used to water crops. I'm not overly happy about how we have this established because people constantly try to find ways to somehow manipulate it so that they can end up with lasting or permanent conjured matter even at extreme inefficiency, just because ... I guess, because they can? I'm tempted to just remove this concept completely and say all conjured matter dissipates once a channel is lost, no exceptions, good night. It'd be much simpler and people would stop trying to glean some application and usage out of it when it was really just a way to explain why people stayed drenched, because hitting someone with hydro and drenching them is funny.

Some persisting channeled effects aren't actually "free", but rather than actively sapping the energy of the channeler, they can be maintained for the very minor cost of slowed energy regeneration. So it's still taking energy to maintain, but not a whole lot - not enough to overcome a person's energy regeneration rate and make them more tired. This applies to things like Shadow Cloak and Nether Claws, and will be applied to Mage Candle once it's given a small overhaul (yes, that's going to happen). I'm not sure how happy I am with this concept, but I don't have any particular desire to change itat the moment. It's not ideal, but it works well enough I think.

Ice Barbs is a very old spell that's slated for overhaul and being turned into something that makes lore sense but has the same ultimate effect (lasting damage increase to a weapon). Right now it's a very bad spell because A) cryomancy can't conjure water to make the ice and B) the effect shouldn't persist without some explanation as to how it's maintained without an active channel. It's also quite goofy as a Rook Parlour spell because it has a specific application as increasing the effectiveness of a combat tool, when Rook Parlour has no inclinations toward melee combat (not to say that members can't or shouldn't, but they would absolutely be the exception to the norm). We might be able to say something silly like its original purpose was to provide enhanced edges to scalpels and other tools used to perform operations on bodies.

Where does conjured matter come from? Is it created or does it draw existing matter together somehow? Elemancers don't know the answers. There are various theories. Some do think that the matter is actually created, but not many accept this - there's a general majority agreement with the University and other scholars that matter can't be created or destroyed. Others believe that it is restructuring existing "ambient proto-matter" that's plentiful but invisible/untouchable in its natural state throughout the world, the structure based on the elemancer's supplied pattern. Yet others believe there may be some sort of separate plane filled with proto-matter that elemancers draw the stuff from temporarily. Then there's the idea that it's drawing minute traces of the matter from the natural surroundings and structuring it into a single form (not commonly accepted, due to the fact that elemancy doesn't seem to be able to affect existing natural matter, but some insist that in very tiny quantities it could be possible and that's how this works).

What is known is that, to give an extremely basic and simplified explanation, the elemancer provides a (very very complex) pattern, then supplies the will and the energy to somehow catalyze the universe's compliance and fill that pattern for as long as the elemancer can maintain that will (channel). It's simultaneously seemingly god-like, yet extremely and frustratingly limited.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Islet » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:49 pm

Thank you for all this information! Being a master level ability sounds great, and would be astounding to impress folk. I actually have a question related to master-level elemancy, since you mentioned it (and I'm sure are regretting it now.) I heard of Orris, the master Hydromancer and how his abilities have a different effect than normal. I only know of a handful, like making snow, but what kind of things can the other elemancies look forward to? Or is that something I should find out in game? As a hopeful aeromancer, I'd love to know what kinds of things I can look forward to.

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Rias » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:00 pm

To be frank, I'm having a real hard time coming up with stuff for pyro and aero.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Rias » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:02 pm

And FYI, master hydromancers can both vibrate and still their conjured water, resulting in steam or ice.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Shou » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:05 pm

Stealing a little from Avatar: TLB a litttttttle, why not lightning for pyromancy? I mean, in general, a lot of what's in that show seems like it could fit in reasonably.

As for air, sonic booms, or sharpening it into something that cuts?

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Nootau » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:11 pm

Shou wrote:Stealing a little from Avatar: TLB a litttttttle, why not lightning for pyromancy? I mean, in general, a lot of what's in that show seems like it could fit in reasonably.

As for air, sonic booms, or sharpening it into something that cuts?


Because you can already weave lightning without having two channels in the same element. Also, lightning and storms are more akin to air than fire.

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Kunren » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:16 pm

Shou wrote:Stealing a little from Avatar: TLB a litttttttle, why not lightning for pyromancy? I mean, in general, a lot of what's in that show seems like it could fit in reasonably.

As for air, sonic booms, or sharpening it into something that cuts?

Lighting for pyromancy I would say no, unfortunately. Its already in and takes like 3 different channels if I remember right. As for the aeromancy ideas...I can see that, perhaps. Sonic booms happen when something breaks the sound barrier, correct? If a master aeromancy influenced wind in the right way, it might be possible...but of very little use. A load banging noise would do little more than daze, or perhaps stun and enemy at most.
Now, the wind that cuts, is much more feasible I would think. Not sharpening it per say, but having the wind go at such a speed that it rips at you. Hurricane force winds can rip the bark straight off a tree, and I imagine much more to a persons skin, though I am no expert at all on the science of that. For that matter, are hurricane force winds possible with aeromancy?
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Shou » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:18 pm

NB: I don't play an elemancer, just poking thoughts.

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Sneaky » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:36 am

Heh, could always allow aeromancers the ability to shoot small projectiles at extremely high speeds, using either geomancy to form a rock in the hand to blast away, or a lead shot or stones you forage, could even do a peppering affect, like a blunder buster. Maybe this ability requires a special item, like a steel tube or something to allow the item to be shot without causing injury to a person's hand.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Rias » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:34 am

I would especially like utility ideas. Elemancy already has by far the most varietous selection of damage-dealing options with multi-element weaving, many of them extremely powerful. And, as I'm always repeating: the University teaches a science, not a combat method. We don't need 101 ways to do damage.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby preiman » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:46 am

Why not give pyromancers the ability to generate heat as if there was a fire in the room. Might be fun to give cryomancers the opposite ability, and let them suck heat from a room.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Kunren » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:21 am

Ok I came up with a little list of ideas for aeromancy a pyromancy.

1.pyromancy-The ability to burn patterns, pictures, or words into things (leather, wood, ground, cloth, walls, ect.) Possibly with quality possibly depending on pyromancy skill.

2.pyromancy-Burning raw meat wnough to eat, possibly other cooking applications (I don't know enough about cooking to say)

3.aeromancy-An instrument only useable with aeromancy, I picture a sort of handheld object with holes drillef through it strategetically in which wind would be blown through.

3.5.aeromancy-as a continuation along a different vein of the previous idea, you could use different carved instrument type objects to make a frequency similar to the place (think it was in asia in mountains somewhere) where the wind blows through the rock on such a way as to drive animals in earshot insane. Birds fall out of the sky, other animals act weird, ect.

4.pyromancy-It would be really tiring and niche, but using pyromancy to help in the forging process seems feasible.

5.aeromancy- really iffy about this one, as I have no clue how boats or water work in game, but using aeromanct to help along a raft with a sail up or down a river seems like it woukd be pretty useful.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Rias » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:31 am

The ability to conjure a campfire-sized flame and maintain it would work. Pyromancers don't generate warmth or heat, they conjure fire which in turn results in warmth and heat.

"But Rias, fire is a REACTION!!!"

Pyromancy conjures elemantic fire, not something that causes a reaction that results in fire. None of the conjured elements are identical to their natural bases. As another clarification, aeromantic conjurations are also made up of "stuff", it's not just causing movement (and it's not oxygen).

Elemantic lightning isn't "real" lightning.

Elemantic water isn't H2O.

Etc., etc. They're conjurations patterned closely after natural elements, but Elemancers don't know the exact makeup of the natural elements and can't mimic them. Why do you think they send people out on all those survey tasks?

Also to take into consideration is that the CLOK world doesn't follow the same universal laws and constants and makeup as our own. It's patterned very very similar after it, yes, but there are differences (as can be seen by all the fantastical elements).
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Islet » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:21 am

Master Aeromancy: Levitation while channeling aeromancy! Using the invisible stuff to put you a few inches up in the air. What's it do? Nothing else, its just cool to see floating people. Also, moving breaks it so its like sitting but its not.

Wind blades are mostly fictional, after further examination. Hurricanes deal damage because of the debris they pickup, not so much the actual wind. Though arguably, aeromancy air could have the properties of stuff in a hurricane at that level of control. I was thinking something more among the lines of enhancing what they already have.
Why not allow a master aeromancer to fire multiple balls of aero? Like at 3 channels he can shoot out 3 small compressed balls for higher knockdown chance. Controlling each separate channel of wind wouldn't be too far fetched.

% chance of damage reduction? Not a big fan of this one, but applying strong wind against a blow would weaken the force considerably if not knocking it off course completely. Total force and what not. Thing is it would require really good timing and... Wait this Is a master aeromancer!

Fog clearing! By using up vast amounts of energy, sets the room to clear. Good bye magical mist in mistral for five seconds! Sometimes I want to see the sky but I can't.

Speed. Controlling the speed allows us to accelerate the airball much faster, making it almost like getting shot with a ball of air. Minor damage increase.

Headwinds! Make everyone fighting against you struggle against the air current! Attached to air shield, adds energy penalty to enemies. Guarantees quick movement in wilderness while channeling.

Cast a spell to press people against the ground! Like a gravity spell that pins people with tons of pressure. Like choke, they struggle against it and drains minor energy each roll chance. Could have minor suffocation as effect over time?

Hopefully a lot of this is toggle able. I think that multi knockdown has its utilities but the aero ball only does like 10 damage. Even if it doubles at maximum velocity it's still only 20.

Oh, a knock up spell that does variable fall damage. Like antigravity, I guess.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Rias » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:15 pm

FYI, it's now officially a thing. No more conjured matter "bonding" with natural matter. It now all dissipates, meaning hydro no longer leaves people drenched, and it can no longer be used to water soil. Sorry, hydromancers.

Some short-lived secondary effects are still in at the moment (acid/boiling water/lava persisting for a few seconds to continue to harm the target, etc.). Presumably the channeler maintains them for the few seconds they last.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Kunren » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:51 am

Ooh I just had an idea that I really like for pyromancy. Cauterizing wounds to stop bleeding. Seems like it would be in the range of what pyromancy can do. Perhaps add a large first aid prerequisite before you can use it.
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Re: Ability Idea

Postby qinweiqi » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:52 am

Rias wrote:FYI, it's now officially a thing. No more conjured matter "bonding" with natural matter. It now all dissipates, meaning hydro no longer leaves people drenched, and it can no longer be used to water soil. Sorry, hydromancers.

Some short-lived secondary effects are still in at the moment (acid/boiling water/lava persisting for a few seconds to continue to harm the target, etc.). Presumably the channeler maintains them for the few seconds they last.


Does this mean that normal hydromancy attacks will no longer drench targets?

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby merin » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:01 pm

Skywriting

A master pyromancer, with the control he learned from the fireworks, can for a pyromantic firework to explode, causing the sparks to fal and shape themselves into a word.

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Shou » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:10 pm

merin wrote:Skywriting

A master pyromancer, with the control he learned from the fireworks, can for a pyromantic firework to explode, causing the sparks to fal and shape themselves into a word.

Be awesome if it could be seen everywhere (with a view to the sky) within, say, five leagues.

Fire it off outside Mistral, everyone in Mistral could see it, and everywhere within X squares on the overworld. You could use similar code for flares too, to lead people to a place with "The flare is hovering in $direction (or directly above)"

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby Orris » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:14 am

Rias wrote:FYI, it's now officially a thing. No more conjured matter "bonding" with natural matter. It now all dissipates, meaning hydro no longer leaves people drenched, and it can no longer be used to water soil. Sorry, hydromancers.


Well thanks a lot, guys! But it does make it easier to undertand and not have loopholes.

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby qinweiqi » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:45 am

I had some thoughts on utility (ish) stuff for master aeromancers.

(1) with an active aeromancy channel, if you get nova'd into another room (or similar effect), you can react to slow and avoid damage (and possibly also stun/knockdown). This would be similar to how aero jump works for jumping from higher elevation to lower elevation.
(2) If you have an active aeromancy channel and fall due to failed climb check or trap surface of some kind, reduced damage/stun/knockdown, as above.
(3) Have some master-level cantrip to clear foggy rooms (if it is due to natural weather or environment, it should return over time; if created by another elemancer it should just be dispersed).

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Re: Ability Idea

Postby qinweiqi » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:52 pm

Rias wrote:As another clarification, aeromantic conjurations are also made up of "stuff", it's not just causing movement (and it's not oxygen).


Is it breathable? Or more applicably, is it safely breathable? Could an aeromancer (temporarily) prevent drowning by providing breathable air-that-is-not-air? Given the current lore, I'm extremely curious now what would happen to someone if all of their blood supply ceased to be oxygenated instantaneously. That sounds um, bad, yeah bad.

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