Monks under review

Humanitarians, healers and shepherds to the afflicted.
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Jirato
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Monks under review

Post by Jirato » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:00 pm

I've heard several people complain about monks not really being all that fun to play ever since the Thaumaturgy guidelines rolled out, and we're currently reviewing some ways to make them better. If anyone has some feedback they would like to share about how they personally feel about playing a monk, or ideas on how to make them a bit more interesting, please share here. We've already got a few things in mind, but wouldn't hurt to hear from the player perspective.

Note that the purpose of this thread is specifically about monk play style and potential changes/additions to make them more interesting to play, not to change/complain about the Thaumaturgy guidelines.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

Mafuane
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Re: Monks under review

Post by Mafuane » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:05 pm

As a newber who just saw a monk for the first time today, they seem pretty neat! I might even switch over to a monk so I look forward to it myself and any tweaks going forward should be great! I appreciate games that are still tweaking and taking player feedback. I could suggest a exclusive craft, maybe when pottery is finalized or some sort of holy symbol charm via woodworking? (I love crafting). Looking over the abilities, I think they're fair and should be fun for the right rpers (who enjoy rp, combat support, and crafting hobbies)
Hope you get more feedback than just mine though!
thanks for cloking it up as always! :)

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Jirato
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Re: Monks under review

Post by Jirato » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:51 pm

Current results of this review and planned/completed changes can be viewed on our public Trello board here: https://trello.com/c/N7sSssFy/85-monast ... hancements

Feel free to share thoughts and ideas.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Marauder
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Re: Monks under review

Post by Marauder » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:15 pm

"Consider possibility of tweaking thaumaturgy guidelines and allowing monks to battle against nethrim with a heavy emphasis on using thaumaturgy in combat. Still on the fence with this, let me know your opinions on the BBS."

I honestly support this quite a bit. Mainly because it's very hard for Monks to perform self defense when they're not allowed to fight much, if at all, and this hampers their ability to survive where they are most useful; in a party. Not everyone gets Templar tier guarding and thus it's often the Monk that falls under fire and gets pretty much instagibbed due to a lack of basic defenses on their end. It'd make them more useful in a party in general, not just when protected by a Templar, if they could raise their defensive combat skills and maybe pick up a staff to train with if they're willing.

"Possibly some other sort of buff type spell in addition to spirit augmentation. Looking for ideas."

Well, if Augmentation is using thaumaturgy to defend a portion of an ally, why can't they get an advanced but limited additional ability that syncs with it? By that, I mean, if it's possible to guard someone using Light for a fair period of time, would it not also be possible to have an additional ability that stores and then triggers healing upon the targeted body location getting damaged enough? It could dissipate harmlessly upon a certain amount of time passing much like Augmentation, but would add another layer of likely more limited, but still very useful defense. Especially in multi-ally groups. Imagine not having to worry about your heavily-armored bodyguard that much because the moment they get hurt enough, they receive immediate healing without you intervening so you have more time to focus on healing the far less-armored Dwaedn who decided to seek glory by following your posse into combat.

It could, too, work based on whichever limb gets hit to mid-moderately wounded first and then heal that area back up a certain amount. Alternatively, you could code it as a life save sort of ability. First limb to hit bleeding status is healed back to mid-moderately wounded with a moderate cooldown for reapplication after activating, so the Monk can't just constantly reapply it to win a battle they otherwise would have lost numbers in, if they won at all.

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Re: Monks under review

Post by Tamsin » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:01 pm

I was curious how Sanctuary is planned to work.

By banish all nethrim, does that mean a Monk would be able to walk into a room, drop the spell, and poof no more Nethrim?

Or maybe it just means no new nethrim can spawn into the room?

Very powerful either way. Maybe too strong considering some town's primary defenses... I don't know! :)

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Re: Monks under review

Post by Noctere » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:09 am

My 2 cents on "banish all nethrim" would be a kind a fear spell that causes any nethrim in the area to run away very quickly. Wouldn't lend much too much to any combat scenario as any target would quickly move to another room but would provide a nice way to run into or allow a party to escape from a nethrim infested area. Would probably need some sort of limit of what kind of nethrim it would be effective on and where it could be used.
It's not easy being evil...

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Re: Monks under review

Post by Jirato » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:32 am

Noctere wrote:My 2 cents on "banish all nethrim" would be a kind a fear spell that causes any nethrim in the area to run away very quickly. Wouldn't lend much too much to any combat scenario as any target would quickly move to another room but would provide a nice way to run into or allow a party to escape from a nethrim infested area. Would probably need some sort of limit of what kind of nethrim it would be effective on and where it could be used.
That's what I meant by banish, not just making them go *POOF* and disappear, lol.

Also, the moment the monk leaves, the sanctuary is diapelled.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Jirato
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Re: Monks under review

Post by Jirato » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:33 am

It would also be somewhat costly. Not so much that it wouldn't be useful for a brief respite in a hectic battlefield, but it's totally not something they'd go around casting in every room.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: Monks under review

Post by Rias » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:35 am

Tamsin wrote:Very powerful either way. Maybe too strong considering some town's primary defenses... I don't know! :)
I'd advise such towns against putting all their eggs in one basket!
The lore compels me!

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Re: Monks under review

Post by Tamsin » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:40 am

Rias wrote:I'd advise such towns against putting all their eggs in one basket!
Would you mind standing at the gates and looking spooky dangerous 24/7, for a little bit, until we can find them a good replacement? <3

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Re: Monks under review

Post by Nobody » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:24 pm

After a little while of playing a monk, my thoughts are these:
- The herbalism tasks feel like they pre-date the change to grinding giving no skill gains. I'd recommend the grind based tasks give a flat 0.2 herbalism gain, or a graded gain (0.1 for inferior, 0.2 for average, 0.3-0.4 for potent). This isn't necessary though, as herbalism feels like a small part of being a monk, so limited gains haven't really felt hampering.
- If herbalism is intended to be a large part of playing a monk, I'd recommend adding an expanded poultice making ability. This could also potentially resolve the RP disconnect of Dimmes and Sophia asking for herbs, which are not commonly known to be medicinal, for medicinal purposes while not teaching monks how to use those herbs to benefit others.*
- I don't think making the combat restrictions lighter would help, at least not at present. With the restrictions currently spelled out as they are the guild likely draws people who are not interested in combat, or who want to do support roles in combat.
- There is something difficult to describe that I'll make an attempt at. Playing a monk and thinking about compassion makes me feel the need to seek out people to aid, but there is no obviously visible need in CLOK. The orphanage looks like the best kept orphanage ever, there are no visible poor people in the streets, and people seem to be largely self sufficient already. Those things are good, I imagine many of them are the result of previous players' RP, in and out of the monastic order, and that's awesome. But over all I feel like monks need to be needed and they're only nice-to-have. I don't have a solution for that, it isn't really a proper problem, but it's the feel I feel.

I hope that feedback is helpful.

* I've thought about requesting to speak with Dimmes to ask him how to use these herbs, but that feels like using RP to beat up on the devs to me, so I haven't wanted to do that. I also haven't wanted to use poultice make to produce a bunch of experimental poultices when I expect that most of them will do nothing and donating them feels wrong for the same reason (I expect they're useless). If a monk-only expanded poultice ability gave poultices that were useless for players but useful for towns (treating warts, infections, helping bones to heal properly, etc.) I'd totally be greatful for the herb-sink and having something to donate that'd be legitimately useful for a town.

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Re: Monks under review

Post by Jaster » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:46 am

I personally think it would be cool if the "banish nethrim" effect was only active with the monk holding a channel of thaumaturgy, causing them to flee from the monk any time they are in the same room. Of course, this would mean the monk would have to lose constant stamina to holding the channel to maintain the effect, but this way it would follow them where they go, instead of there having to be a cast and a banishment of the effect when the monk leaves the room.

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