Concerning Non-Combat Skillgains

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Concerning Non-Combat Skillgains

Postby Drayla » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:28 am

A popular topic in the magic department recently seems to be getting a way to build magic skills through non-combative means. The argument that has been made to support it (mainly concerning Elemancers) is that the guild is a scholarly one, and as such there should be ways other than combat to raise your skills. I agree with this somewhat, but I still find it hard to support. The main reason I oppose this idea is same as why the GMs wouldn't simply add in a way to gain skill outside of combat without adding in something to mix it up: if something has no risk or danger, and cannot fail, it will be abused. Besides, with no challenge, how would you learn anything? It'd be like going to class to listen to someone talk about a subject, then taking a test over it without having taken any notes or studied a single thing. You wouldn't learn anything, except that the class is awful. Another issue: Rooks are defined as a guild of scholars looking to further their knowledge of life and death through the manipulation of nether. If the University had means of gaining skill without combat, The Parlour would need a means as well, since they are essentially two sides of the same coin. I can already hear the complaints of how Rooks would need to be nerfed due to nether and cryomancy being easily brought up to a high level without any combat.

Basically, the problem with non-combat skillgain is the same problem that exists in other skills as well, not just magic: people seem to forget about RP when it comes to skills. If a means of peacefully building skill were implemented, people would have to use it according to their character's personality. If an Elemancer wants to learn solely outside of combat, he/she should be terrified or disgusted by the thought of ever using their skills to harm another living thing, even in self-defense. If someone just wants to use their skills in combat to protect themselves, they should go out and fight just as often as they study or more often, to actually gain knowledge of how to use what they know in a real situation. If they want to become a powerful mage who is a force to be reckoned with, they should hardly study at all at first, then move on to solely building skill through combat. The same goes for anyone who uses magic. I just don't see enough self-control when it comes to building skills based on your character to believe that it would be used in the way that it should be.

Okay, that's the end of my rant. Thank you for reading, and let me know what your opinions are.

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Re: Concerning Non-Combat Skillgains

Postby Jaster » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:59 am

Do we really need to keep discussing this? I thought it was pretty clear that the GMs oppose skillgains without challenge. In all contexts.

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Re: Concerning Non-Combat Skillgains

Postby Nootau » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:32 am

Alpha is alpha. Mechanics will be added and later rebalanced. The main guild talking about such, Elemancers, was never intended to be a murderers guild which they currently are. The reason the focus is more on the Elemancers rather than the Rooks was simple in a way, the Elemancer guild existed before the Rooks, changes to Elemancers will trigger changes to other guilds. While you may see it as people begging to have ways to abuse the system, the concept of non violent means to gain power for several guilds is the core of their RP that has never had much, if any, mechanical backing.

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Re: Concerning Non-Combat Skillgains

Postby TwistedAkai » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:43 am

I do like the idea of non-combat skillgains, but I certainly think that they should require some effort or risk, as well. I think it's safe to say, however, that trying to come up with a skill-related challenge that doesn't involve combat or GM intervention at some point is going to prove significantly difficult.
You also notice the corpse of a canim scavenger (x169).

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Re: Concerning Non-Combat Skillgains

Postby Aerotine » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:31 am

Why do we automatically assess "effort or risk" to mean "harm to limb and body"? Perhaps there should be a riln fee if you don't complete a certain amount of skill gains within a certain amount of logged in time. Kind of like failing a class. So it would be like, you must complete a certain amount of labs or learn a certain amount about one or two elements and channeling, or you're forced to repeat a year/month of elemancy school or something. That gives an associate risk, with maybe some monitory consequence.

We may have a solution:

Perhaps instead of a one time flat 5,000 fee, you have a smaller (say 3k) initiation fee then do sign ups for 1,000 riln per "semester". Where "semester"=x amount of in game time/skill-gains required to earn your next ability point. You have that amount of time to complete a certain amount of labs (with the reagent/component needs we've discussed in other threads) and as you complete them you earn your skill level. Perhaps completing your skill level requirements is what grants you the next ability point.

This servers a couple of purposes:
1) It is still makes elemancy one of the harder guilds to progress in with a rising amount of difficulty as you get further. The time allotment doesn't need to increase (until your 10th ability point or something) but, as with all guilds, the amount of guild points needed to advance does.
2) This is a unique idea to skilling up and came make elemancers completely non-combat focused. Likewise, should they want to focus on combat, they can take a semester off (while still being a part of the guild) and go out and work on marksmanship, etc. without using that 1,000 riln to start their semester of study.
3) This does not limit them from doing both, nor does it make the current task system obsolete as it gives elemancers another way to earn guild points and riln outside of the classes. In fact, it almost increases their worth as a way to fund their semesters at school.

At present, you receive 25 points and 100 riln per task. It'll take 10 tasks to fund a semester and they've still only gained 250 guild points. I'd make labs more on par with the gains I see from other guilds but does in the skill range for the given element since currently gaining a skill that is considered guild specific also adds to guild points.

I think the logic behind this works. An elemancer that studies more than practices would still have knowledge of how to use aim the bolts (via the element skill), and they would be good at it via their constant studies but not be as good as the one that practices regularly (the bonus from marksmanship).

A variation of this could be used for Rooks as well, but done with cadaver time or something...

Can we explore this idea?

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