Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Artisans of the Western Coalition, specializing in resource-gathering and crafting.
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Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Jirato » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:20 pm

There is going to be a rather significant change to Artisans coming soon, and I want to be as transparent as possible about them before it happens so that it doesn't catch people off guard.

I've had guild dues on my to-do list for awhile now, and I've finally started getting closer to completing them. Soon, Artisans will be required to pay a certain amount of riln per month to utilize guild services. The number we're looking at right now is 1500. I initially wanted it to be 4000 but had some second thoughts about it being a bit too much. There will likely also be an initial fee required to join the guild with the first month's dues included (Probably the first months fee + 500 riln for initiation).

Artisans have always been about making money, their primary focus revolves around making goods that can be sold for riln. While it's been fairly generous for the Coalition to provide training and services for these people, it is by no means a charity organization. It's about time that they start collecting for sharing their advanced crafting knowledge.

New guild services will be introduced to help soften this blow a bit. For example, Artisans that are current with their guild dues will be able to utilize the work areas in Haiban at a reduced cost. Other facility-related enhancements may be forthcoming, and I'm open to suggestions.

Artisans who are behind on their dues may continue to utilize work areas by paying the standard full price, but will not be able to receive/complete tasks, utilize the purchase order system, utilize permanent wagon storage, receive guild only training, or purchase from guild only shops.

We also understand that some players have alts in certain guilds that rarely log in for months at a time. We don't want you to quit playing for an extended period and then come back tens of thousands of riln in debt. We'll likely have you put on an "inactive" status once you reach a certain period of delinquency with your dues, effectively capping the amount you owe. Right now, I'm looking at 90 days but it hasn't really been discussed internally yet other than a "Yeah, we should probably have a limit on it.", so the specific amounts are subject to change.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby sona » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:44 pm

I'd hope that selling finished products to the pawnshop, or even more appropriate shops( weapons to weapon shops, armor to armor shops, etc) would be better reflected from the current values and brought more in line with even half of what NPC shops sell this equipment for, modified a bit by quality of the product. This hope is so that the artisans guild doesn't become the, "Logging and mining guild".

As for suggestions, I'd hope more artisan only crafts become available, and some current ones are tweaked, so I'll just start throwing suggestions out and hope that some stick. forging hammers craft: if crafted quality is above average, grants a smithing bonus. Maybe add hoes and whittling knives that convey skill bonuses to farming and wood working respectively. Add a fishing pole craft for either forging (since in game poles mostly appear to be metal) or woodworking, because I think wooden poles seems more realistic for our setting. Add artisan crafting for leather working, so better quality leather armor is available to only artisans to make. Make a slight increase to chance of equipment degrade on repair, so that armor/weapon purchases by players are not a "1 time buy", and further purchases aren't just because they want something that looks more pretty/rare/exotic, though wanting rarer things is certainly a valid reason to buy equipment, it just shouldn't be the only reason. Re-add, improve, and vamp up "the artisan store" with some nice stuff other than just the recipes. Oh, and offer private mines to artisans only for the time being. The coalition having the sway that it does politically, providing the various major cities of with all that they do, should be able to universally cover the worry that land isn't owned by a city, but rather that all cities are in agreement to not make a fuss over artisan mines. Ability: hire mine-guard, supplements artisans owning mines, and prevents non-authorized persons from entering. The coding should just be a simple list with names, and functions to add/remove names, the guard checks if $name is attempting to enter shaft, and if permitted, waves them by, and if not, defends the entrance to the mine, maybe alerting esp with a brief description of the person attempting to enter $owner's mine, unauthorized.

I hope at least some of those seem like good amendments to the guild, it's all I can think of right now, but with the proposal of guild dues to be incurred monthly, I also think significant benefits and improvements need to be offered.

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Skah » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:40 pm

I really hummed and haaed about whether to post this, but here goes. In the time I've played as an artisan there's been a lot of big changes. Looking back, they almost all make playing them less desirable, at least for me. Is there some sort of overarching planregarding the Coalition Artisans that these changes reflect ? Were they unbalanced before (despite the fact that all they can do is earn riln, and the majority of the very wealthy players are in other guilds)?

Here's the list of changes off the top of my head. I'm probably missing some:

Addition of wagon storing (cool!)
Removal of Shadgard Guild Mine
Removal of Coalition HQ Mine
Removal of Coalition HQ Forest
Removal of Coalition HQ Farm
Removal of Workstalls
Removal of new player owned mines
Removal of new player shop-stalls
Removal of Hireguards/Mineguards
Removal of Several metals/ores from artisan store
Removal of guild points for selling at markets
Jewelry molds no longer guild exclusive
Addition of (super grindy atm) Artisan tasks
Addition of workstall fees in HQ
Addition of Artisan guild dues

Frankly, besides access to wagon storage and a trainer in Haiban, I'm not sure what guild services my Artisan gets for his 1500/mo.

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Jirato » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:03 pm

Removal of Coalition HQ Mine
Removal of Coalition HQ Forest
Removal of Coalition HQ Farm

Haiban will be expanding soon. I'll see about adding some small private areas, but I can't promise that all of these features will return exactly as they were. I'm not a huge fan of eliminating the risk in a risk vs reward based system. That said, there are tons of plains near water and forests near Haiban. I realize that mining is an issue, and there's a new area planned that will help alleviate that a little, but the entire system has been scheduled for an overhaul for over a year now and we've been pretty reluctant to add new mining-related stuff until that is done.

Removal of new player owned mines

These were never a Trader/Artisan exclusive thing and are unrelated to the Artisan guild.

Removal of new player shop-stalls

Traders never had stalls, just carts. And once upon a time long long ago, they weren't even Trader-specific. Still, with that said, I do have something planned, it's going to take a bit of work and I'm not really ready to talk about specifics though.

Removal of Hireguards/Mineguards

These were incredibly unbalanced and unrealistic. Pay a one time fee and pretty much force another human into slavery, being at your call 24/7 until it dies. I can think of some alternatives, but I'll have to discuss them internally with Rias and the other GMs first to get a feel for what they think. I think the initial plan was to just leave them gone for good. Rooks are supposed to be the "pet class" of CLOK, having Traders buy permanent combat pets just didn't really seem to fit.

Removal of Several metals/ores from artisan store

These were a limited quantity thing. Apparently someone bought up all the stock so they just poofed from the list. I'm not sure what all was there besides cobalt, but if you let me know I can work up a system to slowly introduce some more into the shop. They will still be a finite quantity though.

Removal of guild points for selling at markets

Currently thinking over a mechanic to provide a very small amount of guild points for crafting items. The main problem is the crafting system doesn't really have any challenge mechanics built into it so someone could just grind nails all day and gain a ton of points.

Jewelry molds no longer guild exclusive

Wasn't aware they ever were.

Addition of (super grindy atm) Artisan tasks

I've talked a bit in our previous Skype chats about new tasks utilizing the purchase order system. It's still planned, but will take awhile to iron out.

Addition of workstall fees in HQ

The old Coalition HQ pre-dated the permit area system. When it got burnt down and Haiban was rebuilt, it utilized permits. If you read my original post, you'd see that once guild dues are implemented, Artisans will have reduced costs in Haiban.

Addition of Artisan guild dues

Sorry that you view this as a negative, but it's going to happen.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby crystal2014 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:14 pm

I will have to agree with skah, one of the things that made me want to be an artisan was the ability to access the artisan only mine and the private farm plots, I believe it was the very night that I joined the guild the old HQ burned down and things changed. Now I play my artisan because I am at work most of the time and it is easy to forge and do my job. Right along with other artisan related tasks. I think that this guild does need to have more benefits, and like Skah pointed out we have lost a great deal but nothing has been given to us to replace these losts. Now we get monthly fees! First I think that weapon repairs should be artisan exclusive or only able to be done at shops. This would make the artisans in greater demand. After all forging is one of our abilities and there isn't very much that we can do that others can't! I understand that we get increase in rolls and things like that, but player chars don't care about that, They only care about the stuff we are willing to make to sell to them. Now, no cobalt! This sucks because this is one of the things artisan could get at the ready, and now it isn't there so our weapons have no difference than the weapons that the other players can make. I do believe that artisans need more specialize weapons to forge. Perhaps armor that artisans forge tan be lighter than the armor purchase out of the shops. I would really like to see a private area for artisans to farm be reimplimented and perhaps artisans can have the ability to farm larger fields. Kent has pointed out several times that leather goods made by players are heavier than the stuff we can purchase out of the shops this makes player made leather goods lease attractivePerhaps artisan should be able to forge buttons under the commodity category and add these buttons to artisan only leather goods. . The wagon storage is an awesome thing and I think jewelry molds being artisan exclusive is perhaps a bit too far, but perhaps the artisan can be given a wider selections of molds to choose from. Perhaps artisans could be able to add gems to their weapons hilts and other touches like that! I over all love my artisan char and have never really considered playing anything else, but I would love to see this guild have more to offer the players. My char often times find herself to be the only artisan around which makes for pretty lonely rp, and I love when there are other artisans online, so lets see if we can't put our heads together and make this guild worth playing!

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Jirato » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:24 pm

crystal2014 wrote:First I think that weapon repairs should be artisan exclusive or only able to be done at shops. This would make the artisans in greater demand. After all forging is one of our abilities and there isn't very much that we can do that others can't!


Only an Artisan with the Master Blacksmith ability (and a paid metal repair shop) can repair a metal weapon without quality loss. This is already a thing, and should already make Artisans much more desirable for weapon repairs than other player characters. If it isn't, then try getting the word out.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby jilliana » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:11 pm

It takes spending riln to earn riln. I don't have an artison character nor am I ever interested in getting one, but I did notice something as Jilliana- it is really easy to earn riln as an artison. One can mine all day and get over 10 thousand riln if one knows how to work it correctly...and this is just in a few hour's work.
I always felt that artisons needed more money sinks and it shouldn't be free to have exclusive expertise to crafting.
CHAT - Sir Alexander Candelori: Truly a man is an abomination that does not dip his french fries into his chocolate frosty.
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You overhear the following rumor:
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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Ardor » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:17 pm

jilliana wrote:It takes spending riln to earn riln. I don't have an artison character nor am I ever interested in getting one, but I did notice something as Jilliana- it is really easy to earn riln as an artison. One can mine all day and get over 10 thousand riln if one knows how to work it correctly...and this is just in a few hour's work.
I always felt that artisons needed more money sinks and it shouldn't be free to have exclusive expertise to crafting.


Actually, everyone can do mining and make just as much money. Mining is not Artisan exclusive.

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby jilliana » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:20 pm

I understand that. Jilliana mines on occasion. What I meant to say was that with all the artison benefits to professions like mining, earning riln becomes much, much easier and you earn more. This is especially the case when one gains skill in things like forging and weapon or armor crafting.
CHAT - Sir Alexander Candelori: Truly a man is an abomination that does not dip his french fries into his chocolate frosty.
Bryce flatly says, "Just fair warning: If one of those things webs me, I'm going to scream like a girl."
You overhear the following rumor:
"There's an old man that can sometimes be seen walking around with a trunk, rumor has it he takes it to the stables and gets naked in front of the horses before changing clothes from the trunk."
You think to yourself, "Who could that old man be?"

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Barius » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:25 pm

jilliana wrote:It takes spending riln to earn riln. I don't have an artison character nor am I ever interested in getting one, but I did notice something as Jilliana- it is really easy to earn riln as an artison. One can mine all day and get over 10 thousand riln if one knows how to work it correctly...and this is just in a few hour's work.
I always felt that artisons needed more money sinks and it shouldn't be free to have exclusive expertise to crafting.


I'd just like to take this opportunity to mention that I really, really dislike the idea that if you want wealth, you should mine. It feels like nearly half the population of CLOK are miners because it's where all the riln is. I don't know if it's bad design or just the fact that everyone seems willing to put aside what their character might reasonably do in favor of being rich or not, but something about it just rubs me wrong.

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby jilliana » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:33 pm

Barius wrote:[I'd just like to take this opportunity to mention that I really, really dislike the idea that if you want wealth, you should mine. It feels like nearly half the population of CLOK are miners because it's where all the riln is. I don't know if it's bad design or just the fact that everyone seems willing to put aside what their character might reasonably do in favor of being rich or not, but something about it just rubs me wrong.


I agree with you there completely, or rather, for the most part, but one can't deny that that's mostly how artisons are expected to get the majority of their materials. The fact that mining pays so well if done correctly is just a benefit that is rather unavoidable.
CHAT - Sir Alexander Candelori: Truly a man is an abomination that does not dip his french fries into his chocolate frosty.
Bryce flatly says, "Just fair warning: If one of those things webs me, I'm going to scream like a girl."
You overhear the following rumor:
"There's an old man that can sometimes be seen walking around with a trunk, rumor has it he takes it to the stables and gets naked in front of the horses before changing clothes from the trunk."
You think to yourself, "Who could that old man be?"

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Barius » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:38 pm

jilliana wrote:
Barius wrote:[I'd just like to take this opportunity to mention that I really, really dislike the idea that if you want wealth, you should mine. It feels like nearly half the population of CLOK are miners because it's where all the riln is. I don't know if it's bad design or just the fact that everyone seems willing to put aside what their character might reasonably do in favor of being rich or not, but something about it just rubs me wrong.


I agree with you there completely, or rather, for the most part, but one can't deny that that's mostly how artisons are expected to get the majority of their materials. The fact that mining pays so well if done correctly is just a benefit that is rather unavoidable.


Which is understandable, if unfortunate.

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby sona » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:52 pm

could always nerf the values of mined goods for non-artisans. But also, there's not a lot of effect upon anything that an artisan can have through riln. So, Artisans have more riln than non-miners most of the time. Our list of artisan specific crafts is limited to 2 crafting categories, total. And we'll be paying 1500 riln/month for that. And jewelry sales are pretty limited. Top that off with the fact that apparently, it doesn't even matter if you make a rough or crude cut gem, so long as you don't dust it, when you combine it with the setting, it'll show without any quality defects. For artisan riln earning to have a point or effect, there needs to be a purpose or focus for that. Maybe it's various building projects over the lost lands that artisans can individually decide to assist and forward, maybe there's some political RP or sway that artisans can influence in hamlets or cities if their accounts are over a certain value in a certain city, as VIP members of that city. There's a lot of change and rework that needs to be done on this guild before it's seen as something more than "can you craft one of those 4 weapons that a non-artisan can't make for me? And I'd like it exquisite or master quality, which will take you days, if not weeks to do. And I'll give you 10,000 riln or so for that, which will take me 1-2 days to gather from foraging, thanks!"

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Skah » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:42 pm

I'm pretty amazed at the recent artisan changes and the planned ones that have been mentioned. I retract my (somewhat whiny and, as it turn out, inaccurate) post above. Really great to see all this movement on artisans!

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby sona » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:41 pm

I'm just going to hold out some hope that the upcoming changes will give artisans some neat, exclusive stuff, as we're already limited in exclusive stuff, or our exclusive stuff is relatively minor all around. I'll try and hold off further negative comments until changes hit. I do feel like guild dues is a kick in the ribs while the guild is already down. We'll have to wait and see if the new perks will outweigh a monthly hit. The example listed does come off as, "1500 riln a month, and we're letting you use the work areas for 10 riln per 3 chimes, instead of 25 riln per 3 chimes." or something like that. It might be softened a bit, if artisans had an artisan only cobalt/diamond/sapphire/emerald/ruby/super good mine. But I don't expect that will happen. A private logging area that -doesn't- trigger Gaea distress with various rare/uncommon/common trees would also be good. RP it as "every time an artisan cuts down 1 tree, a laborer plants 2 of that kind." or something like that. Letting artisans purchase actual shops instead of a cart could be neat. And maybe reducing the requirements for a cart/shop. Because they are long and prohibitive for all but artisans who have been playing for literal years. I think there's only 1 artisan in game who has access to a cart. Total.

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Jirato » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:54 pm

The logging area was released earlier today, and it does include rare/uncommon tree types including one that is only found in Haiban.

Commune distress will still happen though, so I kinda expect loggers to be mindful of requests to stop over ESP, and if it gets to be a problem Locke will probably temporarily shut it down. No one wants a repeat of what happened with the old Coalition HQ.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Kunren » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:01 pm

Honestly, I would LOVE the idea of artisan only shops they could set up. It would really be cool for the guild in general and could jumpstart both player economy and noncombatant "salesman" rp. You need something? Go see if x artisans shop is open, maybe you might manage to haggle a fair deal out of him. Or, need to sell something? Pawnstars time, clok version. I realize you can pretty easily just do it in person.. But having a shop to go to would be epic. Could function similar mechanics wise to buying a house... Perhaps with a hefty shop tax to the city the shop is located in. I have to say meeting up with a shop owner in their shop and to rp haggling over a deal, or them showing off their wares would be amazing.
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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby jilliana » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:11 pm

Kunren wrote:Honestly, I would LOVE the idea of artisan only shops they could set up. It would really be cool for the guild in general and could jumpstart both player economy and noncombatant "salesman" rp. You need something? Go see if x artisans shop is open, maybe you might manage to haggle a fair deal out of him. Or, need to sell something? Pawnstars time, clok version. I realize you can pretty easily just do it in person.. But having a shop to go to would be epic. Could function similar mechanics wise to buying a house... Perhaps with a hefty shop tax to the city the shop is located in. I have to say meeting up with a shop owner in their shop and to rp haggling over a deal, or them showing off their wares would be amazing.


Yes! I have mentioned this on at least 2 or 3 occasions on Skype chats with the GMs. Though honestly I didn't really specify it to the artison guild but it does make sense. Regardless, I'd like to see a slightly more structured means for people to sell to each other.
It didn't occur to me until halfway through writing this post that the subject has nothing to do with this post. Apologies! :)
CHAT - Sir Alexander Candelori: Truly a man is an abomination that does not dip his french fries into his chocolate frosty.
Bryce flatly says, "Just fair warning: If one of those things webs me, I'm going to scream like a girl."
You overhear the following rumor:
"There's an old man that can sometimes be seen walking around with a trunk, rumor has it he takes it to the stables and gets naked in front of the horses before changing clothes from the trunk."
You think to yourself, "Who could that old man be?"

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Carressa » Tue May 05, 2015 11:50 am

So I'm a casual player, hence me not seeing this coming (noone's fault but my own, not placing blame) but I wanted to voice my thoughts/concerns on it.

I know that artisans can make money like water, if you opt to focus around it. Personally I've been focusing on smithing, because I want to make amazing armor (which is apparently one of the harder ones to learn because of the size of the armor pieces) so I'm working on blades and such.

I want to apologize for the rambling nature of this, but it's really just me getting my thoughts down, and looking for anyone to say it makes sense, or I'm nuts.

I am a casual player, usually from work when it's slow, or a couple hours here and there evenings or weekends. I mine for copper (or if I get other stuff, make bronze/brass), then forge it into lumps, or misshappen weapons, and finally, this week, actually sellable/pawnable things. I hardly ever sell anything to markets, and have only just now began to sell to players (because the things I made suck). Rather than taking artisan skills in mining, I took forging ones to make that process a little faster, but it's still a hideously slow climb to "average." (It was well over 1000 hammestrikes/forging commands until I could reliably make nails, let alone weapons)

My point is that I've saved about 10k in the last 5 months, and this kind of dues would have pretty much made me either shift my entire concept to a mining based character just to afford to pay the dues, or to quit/find another concept.

For heavily active players, the wagon storage may not be a huge thing, but for casual, real-life-interupted players like me, it's monumental... when I have stable time to play, I mine... then when I'm at work, or elsewhere, I can forge the things I mined because I can store them in my wagon. Without that, I really couldn't play.

Maybe the answer is going to be "don't be such a casual player" but I hope it's not. I'm really just trying to voice my own thoughts and concerns, I really don't have an answer.. Maybe a graduating dues, as you get higher ranks in the guild you pay more? I mean SOME kind of fee wouldn't be bad, but when you're starting out, 1500 is likely to bankrupt you unless you're entirely dedicated to earning coin and you're a full-time player (as opposed to one like me).

Side note: Dues implies an organization which I feel could be relatively easily added in... little things like a more detailed guild area, a few rooms, somewhere that artisans could go that noone else could... or a mind link reserved for them.. even a "guild" command addition or option that shows other people in your guild that are online.

Maybe a letter sent to every guild member when a new one joins, who knows. I just know that it feels very.. disassociated the way it is right now. I feel like i'm an artisan because I work for Locke, that's it.

Sorry, my rant/vent/thougths are done.. I welcome any responses.

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Jirato » Tue May 05, 2015 2:03 pm

I would definitely like to see some features/changes to bring the Coalition closer together and welcome all feedback/suggestions related to that. No need to apologize for it! I will say, however, it's probably never going to be such a tight-knit organization as what the Tse Gaiyan has become, and I feel it's a bit of an unfair comparison as the two organizations are pretty radically different from each other. It's not like we're all working towards a common goal here such as combating the Resen. It's an organization about making money, and can even be pretty cut-throat at times.


In regards to some of the things you've mentioned...

graduating dues, as you get higher ranks in the guild you pay more? I mean SOME kind of fee wouldn't be bad, but when you're starting out, 1500 is likely to bankrupt you unless you're entirely dedicated to earning coin and you're a full-time player (as opposed to one like me).

At this moment there is no real benefit to being higher rank within the guild, so I don't feel this is necessary. If at a later time we add extra benefits for higher rank players, I may reconsider increasing their dues, but I feel 1500 is a good baseline. New members will (soon) need to pay a 2000 riln initiation fee just to join the guild, which will include their first month dues as well, which should eliminate the issue of joining the guild but not having access to any of its facilities. And Artisans aren't the only guild to do this, by the way.


a more detailed guild area

Haiban as a whole is getting a major upgrade, and the Artisan and Mercenary areas are a big part of this. It's going to take some time though because I'm a terrible builder. Here's a sneak preview though!

[Haiban Bridge, South] (OutUr) [temperate] Mild, Overcast, Light Breeze
Wide enough for several lanes of both pedestrian and wagon traffic, this massive bridge arcs high over the rushing river below. At either edge of the structure are intricately-carved redwood and stone parapets, the laquered wood
painstakingly burned with ornate etchings. An exceptionally well-laid stone surface provides the most comfortable of wagon rides across, as well, each granite brick locking near-seamlessly with the next.
Several people are milling about the area. The area is slightly noisy.
Obvious paths: north, south.

You head north.

[Haiban Bridge, South] (OutUr) [temperate] Mild, Overcast, Light Breeze
Smooth granite lines the base of this prodigious bridge, spanning the vast river below. Intricately-carved redwood and stone parapets continue along the entire length of the structure. The elevated position gives an excellent view of the
southern part of Haiban, with its many towers and roofs of larger buildings showing over the white marble walls. The Haiban Clocktower and large, stocky, warehouses can barely be seen off in the distance in the northern portion of
Haiban, nestled against the mountains and enclosed in a low granite wall.
Several people are milling about the area. The area is slightly noisy.
Obvious paths: north, south.

You head north.

[Haiban Bridge] (OutUr) [temperate] Mild, Overcast, Light Breeze
Intricately-carved redwood and stone parapets terminate as they meet the four gigantic support pillars rising from the watery depths far below. The pillars continue to reach high above the bridge and form a large arched square in the
center of the thoroughfare. Dozens of black and gold canvas sheets hanging from atop each arch stretch towards the center high overhead, cascading over each other this way and that to form an elaborate swirling pattern. A large bronze
statue rests within the shade cast by the fabric canopy, facing out towards the river from the city of Haiban.
Several people are milling about the area. The area is slightly noisy.
Obvious paths: north, south.

l pillar
l stat
Four giant stone pillars rising from the water below to high overhead. On each pillar is a giant round emblem of a golden scale upon a black background.

The tall bronze statue shows a middle-aged man with rugged features with a pickaxe and spade strapped to his back. His facial expression is set as if he were looking out towards the river, searching for new lands to exploit.


artisans could go that noone else could.

They currently are the only ones with access to the logging reserve, and more guild-only facilities are planned, but will need to wait until the main Haiban expansion is complete.

a mind link reserved for them

There's a misconception that the majority of the game world has access to and uses the ESP network. As a mundane, non-magical organization, I don't feel this would be an appropriate addition for the Coalition. There is already an ESP tuner crystal color specific for Haiban (Ruby), and I feel this is enough for the time-being.

a "guild" command addition or option that shows other people in your guild that are online

I'm against adding an out of character tool such as this, as I feel guild affiliation should only be revealed voluntarily and in-character. I do have (what I think to be) a pretty cool idea regarding this though. It would basically be a registry that skilled artisans could enroll in. It wouldn't show online status, but it would allow anyone to access a list of skilled artisans to know who to seek out for those particularly difficult jobs.

Maybe a letter sent to every guild member when a new one joins, who knows.

Same as above, I'm not so sure about this. This is unlike anything we have in game for any other guild and I don't feel it appropriate at this time.

I'd love to add more and have some small ideas here and there, but will continue to welcome any feedback/suggestions on how to improve the Coalition.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby Carressa » Tue May 05, 2015 2:13 pm

Jirato wrote:I'm against adding an out of character tool such as this, as I feel guild affiliation should only be revealed voluntarily and in-character. I do have (what I think to be) a pretty cool idea regarding this though. It would basically be a registry that skilled artisans could enroll in. It wouldn't show online status, but it would allow anyone to access a list of skilled artisans to know who to seek out for those particularly difficult jobs.


I was just citing top-of-the-head ideas, not necessarily good ones :) but I love the idea of the volunteer registry. As a new artisan I really had no idea not only who was an artisan, but also who I could go to for help, advice, etc. That registry would be perfect to solve that problem, and keep the anonamous without their names broadcast :)

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Re: Upcoming Artisan Changes (Guild Dues)

Postby sona » Tue May 12, 2015 6:11 pm

I feel like most of my hope for the guild is pinned on the entire artisan re-work that needs to be done. I've been clinging to my character mostly because I don't restrict myself to artisan activities, that's probably been the saving grace for me there. As a guild/organization, we look for some level of individuality, benefit to belong to that guild, and possibly some other factors. This may become irrelevant by the time that skill generalization happens. I'm also hoping the Expansion of Haiban may bring some good artisan/mercenary only stuff to the table. I do think it's been over a month since I've seen anything in the import shop and honestly, it may be more than 2 months. I don't know if the 'per player' allotment system is still in place from the bloodsand being made available.

So, I guess those are points of concern for me, and I know resources are limited in terms of GM/admin availability to improve it, so we'll see those improvements/reworks when we see them. Instead, I'll just throw out some suggestions I think would be nice:
1) keep the 'per character' restriction on the import shop. Sure, that might mean that there's some 'left over' because some of the import doesn't get bought. That's ok, you can set the shelf life of a shop item before removing it to be about 2 weeks. That means that roughly 2 weeks out of a month, an artisan should be able to head to the shop and see if something neat is there.
2)provide home options in Haiban as artisan/mercenary only. Haiban is supposed to feel like the heart of artisan development with a strong mercenary presence. Make the homes in an artisan/mercenary only area, give them options that make sense, training yards, armory, and various living quarter benefits for mercenaries, warehouse-like ones for artisans. Maybe have workroom options, some homes might have a forge, some might have a carpentry area/woodwork shop and each of these artisan home workareas could include a boost to relevant skills. All artisan only homes though would have that large warehouse area, where you could store wagons and such, without having to worry about GM's raiding home spaces and reducing what's there. (not sure if this has been the case, or if robbery has been prevalent).

Not sure what else can be done before there's an entire guild re-work though.

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