Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Artisans of the Western Coalition, specializing in resource-gathering and crafting.
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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Jaster » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:55 pm

I didn't have the riln, or the time to make it. Otherwise I would have. :D

I said I'd spend that amount of riln, not that I always have that amount of riln!

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Elystole » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:56 pm

Hm. Bloodglass handaxe. I may have to give that a shot...

Of course, I already paid a decent amount of a sunsteel handaxe and then I paid more to have Wynthor decorate it. The problem I run into is that I can't use it all the time because it may degrade and there is not a supply of sunsteel available for me to acquire a replacement, so I don't always have it on me when I need it because I can't spare the weight to carry a second handaxe "just in case."
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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Fayne » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:41 pm

Didn't Rias say on another thread recently that Artisans with the Master Blacksmith ability can repair weapons without having to worry about them degrading at all? I know some GM said it. So there's that. Honestly, the whole reason I never get anything better than iton is because I don't see the point in spending hundreds of thousands more riln on something thats just a *teensy* bit better than the alternatives. Sure, bloodglass arrowheads cause decent damage, but they're ineffective against nethrim if I run into them, and they difference between them and iron isn't enough to convince me it's worth the expense. Yeah, they may be pretty, but I'm not buying weapons so they can look good on my mantle. The only rare metal I'd consider using is sunsteel, simce it actually is pretty awesome against nethrim, but there is no way in hell I'm getting arrows made from it. For one, everyone in the game would yell at me for it, and two, that'd be more expensive than I'd ever be willing to pay for anything. If I can buy more than one house for the cost of a single weapon or a quiver full of arrows, that's way too expensive.
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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Barius » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:38 am

The only way you're going to get players to be happy with average quality items is to take away everything above it, or make it non-repairable/limited repairs.

Otherwise you're simply asking people to be happy with something inferior when they know they can get something better. People will always strive to get the best gear they can. It's a game, and it's part of the competitive nature of players to want to be the best.

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Nootau » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:16 am

Barius wrote:The only way you're going to get players to be happy with average quality items is to...

Not really. Look at armor, people often use near average armor from its finite nature even with repairs. Weapons just need to be more like armor.

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Barius » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:22 am

Nootau wrote:
Barius wrote:The only way you're going to get players to be happy with average quality items is to...

Not really. Look at armor, people often use near average armor from its finite nature even with repairs. Weapons just need to be more like armor.


I'll give you that. I mainly had in mind weapons anyway, so pretend I was talking merely about weapons and not armor.

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Nootau » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:32 am

Barius wrote:I'll give you that. I mainly had in mind weapons anyway, so pretend I was talking merely about weapons and not armor.


The fix then is still the same. Make weapons finite, not one time use but repairing has a increased chance at lowering quality to average.

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Kunren » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:02 am

So no one liked my earlier suggestion of the Average non-craftsman pc being unable to see quality? :(
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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Jirato » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:31 am

Kunren wrote:So no one liked my earlier suggestion of the Average non-craftsman pc being unable to see quality? :(


I actually do like that idea, a lot. I know for sure if you showed me some work of art crafted by the world's top blacksmith and then something average crafted by an entry level guy, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless the latter was completely deformed/unusable.

There's a few issues to consider on its implementation though, mainly with how we put the quality identifier in the item's full name, which sounds like we need to address with that exquisite/terrible staff bug anyway. I also think it should probably be more of a "cratsmen get more detailed appraisals" rather than a "only craftsmen see quality" thing. For example, the malformed, terrible, below average, and average indicators would remain as they are, perhaps with some random variance like we have with the weigh command. And then the layperson would just see everything else as "above average" without any detailed knowledge of if it's just above average, exquisite, or masterful.

I don't think it'd be an easy change, and maybe I'm just being pessimistic but I don't think it'd be well received by the majority of our players either. So, not exactly getting on my list just yet. Definitely a fun idea to toss around though.
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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Barius » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:38 am

If this is implemented, I'd kind of like it to tie into your weapon skill. If you're a sword specialist, surely you can discern a masterwork sword if you see one, right?

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Nootau » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:12 pm

Kunren wrote:So no one liked my earlier suggestion of the Average non-craftsman pc being unable to see quality? :(

It would simply cause people to study when they buy anything, if they end up having bad luck on the damage rolls or roll ranges.. the would quickly finger the seller as a liar and a conartist. Why? They have no reason to think otherwise. If the bonus is too small for them in their mind.. the masterwork was really a tier lower or even worse.

While people might settle for average quality, how much ground does an artisan have for now trying to keep their name clean with every unhappy customer who says they changed them for a weapon as if it was masterwork when it was really just above average. Worse yet when a different artisan 'informs' someone that their masterwork.. isn't a real one.. even though it is.

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Kunren » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:55 pm

Nootau wrote:
Kunren wrote:So no one liked my earlier suggestion of the Average non-craftsman pc being unable to see quality? :(

It would simply cause people to study when they buy anything, if they end up having bad luck on the damage rolls or roll ranges.. the would quickly finger the seller as a liar and a conartist. Why? They have no reason to think otherwise. If the bonus is too small for them in their mind.. the masterwork was really a tier lower or even worse.

While people might settle for average quality, how much ground does an artisan have for now trying to keep their name clean with every unhappy customer who says they changed them for a weapon as if it was masterwork when it was really just above average. Worse yet when a different artisan 'informs' someone that their masterwork.. isn't a real one.. even though it is.

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby preiman » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:24 pm

You'd almost have to drop the quolity descriptors and not sell them that way. Instead someone like Ardor could charge more for a sword than Jake, and both could charge more than Dimon. What you would be able to ask for a weapon or anything else for that matter would come down to reputation. A skilled user or crafter of an item may be able to see the difference but most wouldn't. Now the smith in question would still see how good or bad the thing they made was, or at least have some idea, so they could decide if they wanted to sell the thing they made or not.
The more I think about it, the more I like it, a lot of negotiation that at the moment is based on a single word on a weapon would become focused on your skill and reputation. Though I'll admit, anytime I am given the option to focus more on RP I'll take it.
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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Barius » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:44 pm

preiman wrote:You'd almost have to drop the quolity descriptors and not sell them that way. Instead someone like Ardor could charge more for a sword than Jake, and both could charge more than Dimon. What you would be able to ask for a weapon or anything else for that matter would come down to reputation. A skilled user or crafter of an item may be able to see the difference but most wouldn't. Now the smith in question would still see how good or bad the thing they made was, or at least have some idea, so they could decide if they wanted to sell the thing they made or not.
The more I think about it, the more I like it, a lot of negotiation that at the moment is based on a single word on a weapon would become focused on your skill and reputation. Though I'll admit, anytime I am given the option to focus more on RP I'll take it.


While I can appreciate the amount of RP something like this could create, I don't think it's exactly acceptable to go from full disclosure on item quality to being completely in the dark unless you're a special Artisan Blacksmith.

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby preiman » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:51 pm

That's why I wasn't suggesting that. Your ability to determine quolity would be tied to either your ability to make it, or your ability to use it.
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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Nootau » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:16 pm

preiman wrote:That's why I wasn't suggesting that. Your ability to determine quolity would be tied to either your ability to make it, or your ability to use it.

Swordsman and other bladesmen often used test cuts to tell quality. To echo this, you could have a one to three time use item that wouldn't use up durability of the weapon to allow the potential buyer to get a feel for its quality

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Re: Haiban Import and Supply restocking

Postby Elystole » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:05 pm

Fayne wrote:Didn't Rias say on another thread recently that Artisans with the Master Blacksmith ability can repair weapons without having to worry about them degrading at all?

If someone can confirm this as true then I am prepared to spend a stupid amount of riln to have an Artisan on speed dial.

No, I don't expect everyone to be able to afford that right away, but you probably shouldn't be buying such things until you can afford to maintain them. Like buying a car. And it is possible to do quite well with average equipment. Not only is most of the game average (I do wear above-average armor but, again, I pay for it or make it myself), but I can only get average-quality firearms because PCs can't make them. Elystole is still plenty lethal with them.
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