Cryomancy and heat

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Postby Acarin » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:04 pm

The bolt could simply change states (i.e. liquid to gas) when it absorbs the heat and drift off into the air (low vaporization point maybe...). Kind of like tossing liquid nitrogen on someone.

Maybe large enough cryobolts could even cause a smoke screen like effect as the bolts vaporize...
Last edited by Acarin on Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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Postby Arphaxad » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:21 pm

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Postby Rias » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Haven't read Laplace's Demon, sorry.

Nothing said about the bolt ceasing to exist, I was saying it dissipates and disperses. It's not necessarily a physical object either, just the focal point of the spell (so some kind of energy field?), whose effect is (now) drawing heat into itself. As the drawn heat builds up more and more, the energy field can't contain it, and begins leaking the heat back into the environment as it does so.

Hmmm.

I would like the 'changing states' idea, if the cryobolt were a physical object, but I'd prefer to keep cryomancy away from physical conjuration.
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Postby Acarin » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:40 pm

>cryomancy
You're already channeling as much as you can! You'll need to release your current conjuration if you wish to start over.

I thought cryomancy was already conjuration. Is that wrong?
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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Postby Rias » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:47 pm

That's some old generic messaging from when there was only elemancy. I really should fix it. It says that whether you're channeling elemancy, sorcery, druidry, thaumaturgy, or any other type of channeling.
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Postby Landion » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:05 pm

My opinion here:

In my eyes, Cryomancy is simply the ability to remove energy and destroy it from a single target or point. It is the opposite of focusing energy, it is destroying energy.

When you touch something cold, the reason it is painful is because heat/energy is being sucked out of your hand, or body and into the 'void' of energy. That is what is painful. The sorcerer's freezing a person solid spell is a perfect example of Cryomancy in action.

Pyromancy - The caster channels, gathering a tiny amount of energy from everything in the area. (Like a magnifying glass, focusing sun-rays to start a fire.)

Cryomancy - The caster channels the energy out of a single target, and destroys it. A Cryomancy bolt, in my eyes is simply a focus of anti-energy. The caster destroys the energy in a section of air, and as water particles, dust and other things pass through it, it freezes them, creating a white/blue look that is a cryomancy bolt. That void of energy can then be hurled an a target and causes damage by drawing energy out of whatever it manages to hit.( aka cold)
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Postby Reynard » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:20 pm

[quote=Rias]Haven't read Laplace's Demon, sorry.[/quote]
It's a concept, not a book. It's a way in which one might hypothetically get heat from point A to point B even if B is hotter. When heat tries to move from point A to point B, you let it. If heat tries to move from point B to point A, you prevent/hinder it.

This is a subject that I have done some study on for my OWN fantasy western (with steampunk elements) setting.


PS: Further research seems to indicate that I may be using the wrong term for what I am trying to communicate.
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Postby Rias » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:54 pm

If you're thinking of Metabolic Englaciation, that's not freezing someone solid, that's pretty much inducing hibernation by making the body so cold that it mostly shuts down and goes to sleep. The only way to freeze someone solid currently is to drench them somehow (hydro spells, splash them in a shallow water room, find them after they've been swimming or catch them in the rain) and then hit them with a cryo bolt.

A couple problems with cryomancy being energy-destruction:

1) I'd prefer to keep to the 'conservation of energy' bit, so destroying energy is no no.
2) If it's so broad that it's just destruction of any energy, that would go beyond the scope of simply making things really cold, and that's beyond the design intent of cryomancy.
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Postby KianTheArcher » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:12 pm

If the Cryomancy bolt is purely energy instead of a physical conjuration, then to me that would mean that Cryomancy spells could be explained in one of two ways, easily.

The first is that you add an echo to the room, something along the lines of "The air in the immediate area grows warmer for a moment before settling back to normal". And have the message change depending on the strength of the cryomancy spell.

Secondly (an idea which people didn't seem to care for, but I still think would be an excellent solution) would to be to include the pre req of reagents for Cryomancy in the form of heat sinks. Have more conductive metals (such as copper) be easier to use, but have them turn useless faster, and less conductive metals last longer but require a higher Cryomancy skill to use successfully without a backlash of some sort. Just don't allow them to use the heated items as weapons.
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Postby Landion » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:13 am

I really do not think that there is enough energy/heat in a baseball sized patch of air, or even a person's body to significantly warm the air of the town square.

Even if the energy is not 'destroyed' and is just moved out of that small area or target, you're not going to see a significant increase in temperature elsewhere in the room.

And yes, Metabolic Englaciationm would work to cause hibernation by draining energy out of certain organs in a person's body, causing them to shut down without killing the target. (Brain, Heart, etc.)
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Re: Cryomancy and heat

Postby Zaroth » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:55 am

I guess most of this depends on whether or not the bolt is a solid thing. But here’s a possible explanation:
The cryomancer doesn’t use energy to create the bolt. Instead, he uses it in two steps.
First, to shunt energy away from the place where the bolt will form (in the form of a stirring of air or whatever substances they’re in) which probably wouldn’t be noticeably warmer, since I mean the heat is just going anywhere, and it’s a gradual thing, as the bolt grows in size/lack of energy inside the space. Basically, making a void of energy, not necessarily particles.
Secondly, to accelerate the ball of frozen space towards the target (because you’re applying energy to something that you want to have none, the faster the projectile is, the less damage it will do. The larger you want to make the projectile, the more time you have to spend siphoning power from your cryobolt field.) As the bolt travels through space it absorbs heat (becoming less potent the farther away the target) until it impacts something solid and warm (a body), where upon energy from the target, provided it is greater than that of the bolts, puts the particles back into motion, until the bolt naturally reaches ambient temperature. (Heat travels from energetic to less energetic, until systems are equal.)
Assuming the bolt could be made of nethram stuff, this could be applied a little more universally, by saying nethram is a substance at absolute 0 temperature with a really low melting point, and a condensation point very very very close to the melting point. It naturally occurs as a gas or something, which is why it “wants to be used”, because to use it sorcerer’s freeze it/remove energy from the particles (cryomancy it), and it freezes very easily. Or you could make it a liquid, in which case have fun with fluid dynamics.
That brings up questions though – why doesn’t nethram manifest naturally in even mildly cold areas? What are cryomancy channels and how do they work? What about nethram creatures? And what is the nethram taint? How does nethram energy/whatever coalesce? (maybe sorcerer’s would have to learn compression to be able to fire off cryobolts, otherwise they get some kind of coldish black mist/cloud that dissipates quickly? Or liquid nethram is somehow easy to manipulate or something, and they shape it in liquid form, use it in solid form.)
Also full disclosure here: I’m a science fiction writer, not a physicist. All of this could definitely be (and probably is) one hundred percent horribly wrong. Take anything in this post with a grain of salt.
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Re: Cryomancy and heat

Postby Kunren » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:48 am

Hello hello Zaroth, I see you've been asking magic questions in other threads as well. Most of your examination is probably as close to correct as we on the player side will see, but I'll throw in what I know about Nether (which is what you were mistakenly calling "nethram").

Nether is a substance that is ambiently pretty much everywhere in small quantities, and functions as a sort of pseudo-sentient antimatter, and by saying antimatter I don't mean scientific antimatter, just that it eats away at anything that isn't itself. It is also very, very cold.

When sorcerers gather nether, they are basically gathering it from its ambient "gaseous" state to a "liquid" state, which is what is usually shot at people in nether bolts. Nether actually is very, very hard to freeze but with the appropriate skill and knowledge it can be briefly frozen solid, as evidenced by a rook guild ability.

Nether is actually found in places in higher concentrations than normal in the world even without a sorcerer gathering them for reasons not wel documented, and this places are often colder than those around them thanks to that. This is why there are naturally found Nethrim, creatures tainted or controlled by nether, in the case of corpses raised by nether.

Nether is not some one hundred percent natural force either, despite what you can do to study or explain it. It is also inherently magical, and because of that can infuse an object or living persons body and soul to a certain degree, which is what as reffered to as the taint. Hope that answered some questions!
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Re: Cryomancy and heat

Postby preiman » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:32 am

Nether is also to an extent self willed, why you can get some of the more interesting manifestations, it is also likely why it is often seen as a corrupting force.
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