Cryomancy and armor

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Cryomancy and armor

Postby Acarin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:05 pm

I've heard that metal armor drastically reduces cryomancy damage. Why is this the case?

I'd think that dispersing heat from metal armor would be worse than (or at least as bad as) not being armored as you'd have an extremely cold metal object very close to your skin...and the armor itself likely wouldn't do much to block the temperature change.

This brings to mind that story Jaster posted a long time ago...
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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Postby Nootau » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Can Pyromancy gain a similar bonus against [armored] targets? Extended flames onto metal would heat it up considerably, turn it into a skillet, cooking the person inside.

Just a musing thought though.
Last edited by Nootau on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The elements are slaves to no being. One must learn to ask for their aid, the elements offer power to the humble. This is why no one is truly a master yet everyone is a student..
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Postby Acarin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:19 pm

I actually agree to some extent Nootau, although I'd think it would be cool to institute a mechanic where the first couple pyro strikes don't increase damage but after multiple strikes damage with pyro starts going up (kind of like gaining position in brawling) as I'd think that it would take time to heat the metal (think how long it takes to heat a pot on your stove). My understanding is that cryomancy is not physical, it's just a way of quickly dispersing the heat that's in something (but whatever method), so I'd think this exchange would be a faster process.

EDIT: you do mean armored and not unarmored right?
Last edited by Acarin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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Postby Nootau » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:27 pm

Yes I did mean armored, my mistake. Though I would think that both cryomancy and pyromancy would take more than one cast but that also brings up a good question.. How hot is pyromatic flames? How cold can a cryomatic cast make something?
The elements are slaves to no being. One must learn to ask for their aid, the elements offer power to the humble. This is why no one is truly a master yet everyone is a student..
~The Apprentice of the Elements

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Postby Acarin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:27 pm

Here's the story this brought to mind by the way. Rias called it an Arad classic...

http://bbs.contrarium.net/viewtopic.php?id=649
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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Postby Acarin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:33 pm

[quote=Nootau]Yes I did mean armored, my mistake. Though I would think that both cryomancy and pyromancy would take more than one cast but that also brings up a good question.. How hot is pyromatic flames? How cold can a cryomatic cast make something?[/quote]

This is a great question, but it hinges around the nature of each channel I would think.

Pyromancy makes physical flames. It doesn't matter how hot the flames are as like real flames it will take them some time to heat metal. So since it does fire damage, and is not an instanteous transer of heat, you'd have to keep the pressure on I'd think in order to heat up armor. The person inside would likely be very uncomfortable though, as the armor would trap heat inside (so while you may not heat up the armor, it should certainly be doing decent damage anyways).

Cryomancy is not a physical substance. I believe you (or it may have been someone else) compared it to a bubble that disperses the heat from what it touches. If this is the case, it's basically an end result... not an interacting substance, so I'd expect this change to be very quick and cold.
Last edited by Acarin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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Postby Rias » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:21 pm

The raw casts are, or are at least directed by, something akin to a projectile, which is effected by physical matter. What that is exactly, I don't feel is strictly necessary to discuss or hammer out - knowing these limitations should suffice. We're not going to have people casting cryomancy through walls or anything like that. So, when the cryobolt strikes someone's armor, the armor is going to take the brunt of the effect, which will result in a lessened effect on the wearer than if they weren't wearing any protection and were struck directly.

Cryomancy doesn't cause instant freezing of anything it touches. It pushes heat away (to varying degrees based on channels), so the armor itself (or anything else for that matter) isn't going to instantly become freezing-cold upon contact. It would still take some length of exposure to expel all the heat retained by the armor.

The concept of metal armor getting cold or hot and therefore causing discomfort or damage has been mulled over before, and you'll likely see some sort of implementation of the concept in the future.
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Postby Acarin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:45 pm

20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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Postby Rias » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:40 pm

And? I've already stated that players aren't going to know everything about everything metaphysical. Here are three main reasons, restated here for your convenience:

1) Due to the fantasy nature of many aspects of the game, there is not always a real-world equivalent we can use to sufficiently explain things to an extremely fine level of detail. We try to explain as much as possible and have things make sense, but there are limits, particularly when it comes to things like "magic".
2) While the game world works similar to our own, it is not exactly the same.
3) Players aren't meant to have complete understanding of the exact nature of everything in the game world. Whenever things are explained by GMs in discussions like this, it's often a good idea to insert "According to leading scholars on the subject..." at the beginning.
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Postby Acarin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:23 pm

I was joking Rias. Didn't mean that to come across wrong.

I suppose my recent discovery about the molecular structure of nether will have to be prefaced with "According to scholars" if repeated by a GM.

I do think it helps to guide our suggestions/ideas, however, if we have a good understanding of how the magic here actually works, from a OOC standpoint at least. I know everything can't be explained, but you've said yourself that you enjoy us discussing these aspects of the game and prefer to have everything as scientifically reasonable as possible. That's what a lot of these threads have been: Wild speculation about the science of game magic. I like to think that sometimes something productive comes of it.

In the end, any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from game science.

With that in mind, it might be interesting to institute some sort of system where we can discover predefined and obscure pieces of magical science/metaphysics through careful in game "experimentation" in our particular field.... According to scholars, of course.
20:21:01 [CHAT - (a mysterious GM)]: With obvious effort, Zuki pries up a thick scale over a drakolin's chest! Zuki spearhand-strikes the soft, unprotected area under the scale! Heart ruptured, death follows immediately. A drakolin lets out a final bellow of rage and falls lifeless to the ground.

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