Who can learn the skill

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Who can learn the skill

Postby Nathaniel » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:38 am

Is locksmithing limited to only thieves, traders, and Utasa or can anyone learn it, these just get advantages to to skill?

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Lysse » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:54 am

Anyone can learn the skill however only Thieves and Utasa (as far as I'm aware) have access to NPC trainers and lockpicks.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Nathaniel » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:14 pm

So I take it that means that everyone else would have to get the lock picks from one of those and just use them on locks to train themselves up. I was leaning more towards Udemi, if I did join that guild would it be in character for an Utasa to sell me lock picks since we would both be Tse Gaiyan?

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Lysse » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:55 pm

Correct, and potentially. However, that's up to the individual Utasa. Some might be more likely to just offer to open your boxes for a tip; my Utasa alt (for example) would likely just ask why you need lockpicks when you can ask an Utasa Agent to open things for you.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Gruff » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:16 pm

To which you'd respond....You guys are so good at your job of blending it...I can never find one of you to get them opened. :P

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Nathaniel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:55 am

And because I want to be self sufficient as possible. Don't get me wrong, I join a multi-user game to interact. I just see a strong proud nomad wanting to be able to be independent even if he was to often work with others. He's kind of like the ultimate Boy Scout. Has the skills to survive on his own but is here to help.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Lysse » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:13 am

Gruff wrote:To which you'd respond....You guys are so good at your job of blending it...I can never find one of you to get them opened. :P


They certainly aren't going to stick around if people would rather buy the picks themselves! ;)

But in all seriousness, it really depends on the individual's RP. Not everyone is going to roleplay the same as another person. So while one Utasa might not be willing to sell any of their guild tools to Udemi, another might be more lenient. I wouldn't rely on the latter being the case though. And I wouldn't leave my guild choice based on whether or not I want to be able to open locked things. It's okay if you do, just remember that there are folks out there who CAN open locks.

As for self sufficiency Nathaniel, I wouldn't rate lockpicking as a requirement for self sufficiency. If you're playing a self sufficient ranger, the contents of a lockbox are just a luxury rather than a necessity.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Nathaniel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:47 am

Yes, but as I see it some paths would be closed to me. And I roam where I please. *Takes dramatic pose* But if I don't get to learn it, it won't be the end. :)

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby baerden » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:02 am

It's hard finding a Utasa let alone one that would admit to being on in the first place, even to a Udemi..

I would like to see locksmithing/disarming tools available to the public, but not the trainers. This would foster the idea that thieves/utasa are going to be much more skilled in general.

If at a later date traps are added to the treasure boxes and the ability to train to disarm them are thieves/utasa domain alone, then it would be possible to allow the public to try but at a much higher degree of danger, thusly only the truly dedicated amatuers (people who can't study it) would even try as the cost of death would eventually outweigh any treasure you would collect for the most part.

Finding a locksmith has been a challenge for me in the past, I'm not sure how it is today, but I think keeping my suggestions in mind would only allow for more availability of a common locksmith and not necessarily make a thief/utasa moot.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Lysse » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:09 am

It's been discussed before, but I don't recall if Rias ever actually weighed in.


However, I think that because lockpicking isn't a necessary service in the same way that healing is, it's very unlikely that lockpicks will be made available for general and public purchase. Locksmithing is something that the thieve's guild is supposed to specialise is, and if you're unable to find an Utasa/Thief to pick a lock for you, there is always the option of the public locksmiths.

Granted, the public locksmiths take a much harsher cut than a player run Utasa/Thief would. I imagine this is because lockboxes are not a necessity but a luxury, and giving all players access to locksmithing tools would devalue the Thieves' Guild and, to a lesser extent, the Utasa.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Nootau » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:14 am

There is very little intent for all players to be locksmiths, for those who have locked boxes and wish to open them, the major towns have a locksmith who will open them for a fee, not even an out of pocket fee at that.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby baerden » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:26 am

Lysse wrote:It's been discussed before, but I don't recall if Rias ever actually weighed in.


However, I think that because lockpicking isn't a necessary service in the same way that healing is, it's very unlikely that lockpicks will be made available for general and public purchase. Locksmithing is something that the thieve's guild is supposed to specialise is, and if you're unable to find an Utasa/Thief to pick a lock for you, there is always the option of the public locksmiths.

Granted, the public locksmiths take a much harsher cut than a player run Utasa/Thief would. I imagine this is because lockboxes are not a necessity but a luxury, and giving all players access to locksmithing tools would devalue the Thieves' Guild and, to a lesser extent, the Utasa.


Emphasis mine.

The npc locksmith is a last resort. There is no PC interaction at all with that route. I believe we should encourage PC interaction at all times.

I don't think everyone would become a locksmith IF locksmithing were to have some degree of danger to it, and I believe that through guild skills you could allow thieves and utasa to still be valued and more skilled than your average tinkerer.

Nootau wrote:There is very little intent for all players to be locksmiths, for those who have locked boxes and wish to open them, the major towns have a locksmith who will open them for a fee, not even an out of pocket fee at that.


While the fee is not out of pocket, the thing that I truly enjoy from locked boxes are the random treasures, which are always scooped up by the NPC locksmith IIRC. This makes boxes worthless to me personally if I were to use the npc locksmith, and while it does make me try to save my boxes for thieves/utasa, I eventually get tired of waiting and just start tossing them entirely.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Nathaniel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:28 am

Well Baerden, we may not get the skill, but it doesn't hurt to ask. What's the worse that will happen? They say no? :D

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby baerden » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:35 am

Nathaniel wrote:Well Baerden, we may not get the skill, but it doesn't hurt to ask. What's the worse that will happen? They say no? :D


I'm confused.

:p

I never stated that it hurt to ask.

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Re: Who can learn the skill

Postby Kiyaani » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:02 pm

I have to agree with a lot of what Lysse is saying here.

I don't think allowing everyone access to lockpicks is encouraging player interaction and RP regardless of what changes may or may not happen to the boxes. It seems more like it's encouraging lone-wolfism. It's totally fine to be self-sufficient, but as others have stated - lockboxes are not a necessity and do not make your character unable to take care of themselves. Asking for help is 'ok' and no one will think less of you for it. I also personally think that independent nomads (such as was described in the character scenario here) don't much care about technology or newfangled techniques such as locks or how to open them ;) Unless you're talking about gypsies, but that's a whole other ball of wax.

Along those lines, if your character doesn't like to ask for help, perhaps they don't think the contents of a box are worth their time either, maybe they consider it gravedigging or stealing or just not worth their effort. If you're going to be an Udemi, you're out to stop the infestation, not necessarily pilfer the goods etc. That's something you need to figure out for your character as far as how they behave and what they would or wouldn't do, what they care about and what they would actually spend their time learning or mastering.

Realistically, there is no way your character will be able to do everything even if the game technically allows it - honestly it bugs me when characters try to master every skill under the sun. Find a few things you want to master and take pride in to suit your character's background and how you want to play them. There is no harm in allowing other players to perform their guild's services to assist you, you just may have to find a justification for your character to seek that aid.

That said, if you happen to come across a lockpick, have at it. There is nothing stopping you from gaining skill, but with the challenge rating on boxes lately, good luck getting anywhere before the pick breaks. I'd also like to re-emphasize the fact that those with access to lockpicks are very unlikely to sell them or doll them out for personal use and that is actually in-character for them to do. Those picks are specialized tools of the trade, not commodities. Utasa are meant to be secretive/spy types. They won't announce their affiliation or skills to just anyone. Thieves, by nature, want to keep that side of their life secret so they don't get thrown in jail and will often pretend to be honest locksmiths rather than imply anything different.

All I'm saying is, it's a highly sought after skill for a reason. Perhaps we should be encouraging those whose characters lockpick for a living to play and practice their trade so they can more effectively open those boxes for you, rather than taking away what makes them special by giving everyone access or expecting other players to struggle through those low-level lockpicking skillgains to try and do everything for themselves.

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