General Abilities questions

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General Abilities questions

Postby sona » Sat May 02, 2015 9:47 am

Not sure if an email would be more appropriate for this, but I thought a thread might allow others to voice their questions, concerns, and enthusiasms over the generalization of some(most?) skills, instead of just speculating. It could be some of the details haven't been worked out yet, and that's ok as well, can't hurt to put the questions out there after all.

1) Will generalized skills be purchased/earned through it's own separate system, or will it use guild promotion points, or equivalents?

2) Will skills be mostly skill boosts/bonuses (ex: +25 to skill, +10% on rolls), or will a good number be specifically to use new craft options that aren't available, or techniques?

3) Will generalized skills be accessable to everyone, or will many require a guild skill (we've heard that Elemancy Aptitude for example, will be a precursor into the University/elemancer's guild, is this pretty much the sole exception, or is this question unanswerable, due to where generalized skillsets are sitting at in development?)

4) will there be a promotion point/generalization point spending cap? How will that work?

Those are the questions on the system i can think of right now, I'm sure others may have questions of their own.

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Rias » Sat May 02, 2015 11:33 am

1) Will generalized skills be purchased/earned through it's own separate system, or will it use guild promotion points, or equivalents?

It'll be on its own system, utilizing the ability command (not yet available to non-GMs). All abilities, generalized and guid-specific, will draw on a single point pool, however. For instance, if an Elemancer chooses to take a bunch of general abilities, they'll have fewer points available to spend on their guild-specific elemancy abilities (and vice-versa).

2) Will skills be mostly skill boosts/bonuses (ex: +25 to skill, +10% on rolls), or will a good number be specifically to use new craft options that aren't available, or techniques?

I've always been of the opinion that abilities/talents/spells/whatever that do nothing more than grant +x% to y (I call them "Boring Bonuses") were lackluster and ... boring. Like +5% to your blackmsithing rolls. Okay, that's nice, but you don't actually get to do anything new because of it. Some abilities will grant such bonuses, but most will also allow you to do SOMEthing new, i.e. craft a new kind of item, or use a new combat tactic, etc. Well, I guess there might be a few exceptions. I'm not sure if you'd consider Quickchannel being able to do something new, because all it does is reduce your channel preparation roundtime by 1, but taking both Quickchannel abilities and being able to open a channel in 1 second instead of 3 is pretty awesome. And you still get to actually see and really feel the benefit from it. Opening a channel a second faster is extremely noticeable and obvious to the player. Getting an invisible +5% to a crafting roll is not, and you just kind of have to hope that it's really working without any visible evidence that it's making much of a difference. I suppose some other exceptions would be abilities that only grant Boring Bonuses and serve as prerequisites for higher-tier abilities.

3) Will generalized skills be accessable to everyone, or will many require a guild skill (we've heard that Elemancy Aptitude for example, will be a precursor into the University/elemancer's guild, is this pretty much the sole exception, or is this question unanswerable, due to where generalized skillsets are sitting at in development?)

The point of making them "generalized" is that they are indeed open to everyone. Guild-exclusive abilities will remain, like magical abilities, trade secret abilities, and a few very specialized abilities. Elemancy Aptitude is open to everyone only because it will be a prerequisite to join the University. If you don't plan on joining the University, it'd be completely useless to you, as it won't grant anything other than that ability to become an elemancer at the University of Elemancy. There will likely be a similar setup for joining Rook Parlour.

4) will there be a promotion point/generalization point spending cap? How will that work?

There will be a hard cap that will be the same for everyone. Everyone will instantly start out with the maximum amount of ability points available to them. Several abilities will have skill requirements to learn, however. For instance, you wouldn't be able to pick up Sword Mastery until you had, say, 500 Swords skill. So you could potentially find a bunch of no-requirement abilities and learn them all as soon as you make your character, but then you wouldn't have any points free to pick up abilities that are sort of "higher-tier" and have skill prerequisites.

===========

Now I'll comment on a few other things that come up frequently, or that I just want to get out there.

Will we be able to "unlearn" abilities and get our points back to spend them on something else?

Yes, though it will take a very long time, and during that time you'll be unable to use the unlearned ability and be down a point. So for instance, if I took the Footstomp ability and after a while changed my mind, I could choose to unlearn it. Now I need to wait a month of realtime for that ability point to be refunded, and I won't be able to use Footstomp during that time. This is to discourage people swapping around abilities like they're casually trying on new pairs of shoes at the shoestore. You should think hard about whether you really want to take that ability or not. Also, some abilities may be considered permanent and be impossible to unlearn (this will be noted prominently and probably require an extra confirmation step when learning the ability). An example of this would be Elemancy Aptitude.

Now that said, we'll probably throw people a bone when generalization first comes out, and have a set number of points that can be instantly refunded, and maybe have a period of accelerated unlearning time. We'll probably also do similar when additional waves of abilities get rolled out.

What's with all the profession "Focus" abilities, like Blacksmithing Focus, Leatherworking Focus, and so on?

Get out your torches and pitchforks, people. One of the things that has bugged myself as well as the other GMs for a very long time is the "I'll just do every crafting thing because why not? It's possible and I'm bored" attitude. Without the Focus (or Talent or Knack or whatever I end up settling on calling them) ability associated with a profession skill, your crafting options will be very limited. For instance, without Blackmsithing Focus, you won't be able to make much beyond some basic commodities like nails. Without Lapidary Focus, you'll only be able to polish (no faceting). This will also result in skillgain caps, because the gains are going to be switched to be more challenge-based, instead of skilling up indefinitely on making the same basic thing (like nails or quarsterstaffs or leather flasks). We hope this will discourage everyone from just doing everything because why not, as well as make the people who DO specialize more valuable. I've noticed that most people would rather grind up a profession skill on their own and do things themselves rather than ask another character to do it for them. You can skill do that, of course - it'll just cost you some limited-quantity ability points, so you'll have to weigh that against the other stuff you want your character to do ability-wise.

I see there are a ton of herbalism abilites. What will they do?

I'm pretty excited for this one, although it probably won't make the first wave of abilities being released. Some of the ideas are: a multitude of different poisons (and antidotes), more healing options (multi-use healing balms and salves for lesser wounds, so you don't have to use up your herb-heavy poultices on them), powerful enhancers that grant things like super strength, increased reflexes, healing-over-time, superhoned perception, and more! I'm particularly excited about the enhancers, as it'll be sort of like CLOK's equivalent of "enchantments", but non-magical. There will be some severe downsides to using enhancers too often, however, so people won't be running around with constant superhuman qualities. You'll still have to think about when to use them and when not to.

There are a lot of herbalism abilities because I want it to take up a LOT of ability points for someone to be able to do all the cool stuff with it. It'll require a significant focus/sacrifice, ability-wise. It'll also be heck awesome.

What's with the Bushcraft "Lore" abilities?

I think these are pretty neat. It gives your character a chance to show that they really do specialize in that type of environment. In addition to some basic (and boring) bonuses like increased foraging/searching/hiding/combat rolls, they can also grant the ability to find exclusive resources in those areas as well as utilize the terrain in combat. Being a pro at Woodland Lore, for instance, would grant you some combat bonuses due to being used to moving around with trees and thick roots and all that in the way, and therefore grant some nifty extra moves like avoiding a blow by darting behind a tree (extra chance to avoid attacks), or luring an approaching foe toward some roots that they will trip over.

There will probably be some similar "Environment Lore" abilities that aren't specifically bushcraft.

My one worry, of course, is that Fred the Fighter will take the "Lore" abilities just for the edge in combat, even though it might not make any sense for his character. Like if Fred were born and raised in the deserts of Nuum, but he picks up Woodland Lore because hey sweet, combat bonuses! I wish I could find an easy way to restrict these to character histories or something. (Cue every fighter from this point on being a world traveler who has experienced every single environment)

What will the Weapon Specializations do?

They'll give some Boring Bonuses (increased/weighted rolls with that type of weapon) as well as open up opportunities to learn more specialized moves with that type of weapon.

What is Tactics Swashbuckling?

While in this tactic you will automatically attempt things like Feint and Disarm, and you have an increased Riposte chance, as well as a few other Boring Bonuses. This tactic only works if you have a light sword (rapier/sabre/estoc/shortsword) in one hand and the other hand free, holding a main-gauche, or holding a buckler. Having the off-hand completely free will make the tactic more effective than holding a gauche or buckler. I have more spiffy tactic ideas like this in mind to help people establish their particular fighting style, and I'm super excited about it. It'll really give people a chance to stand out more in common combat.

Why can't we use Tactics Swashbuckling while holding two swords? Like two rapiers!

Because holding a full-size weapon in your off-hand is cumbersome and goofy and I've never been especially fond of its massive popularity in fantasy and gaming. Holding two swords is not twice as effective as holding one sword. "Dual-wielding" is spiffy and is a popular niche in sport, but as far as I've been able to discern, it's not especially effective in the field and wasn't ever seriously used in warfare.

But ninja and samurai-

Don't. Just don't.

Hurr hurr hurr, what is Template Ability? It must be real cool since it was in the teaser!

Quiet, you.

===========

Feel free to ask any other Generalized Abilities questions.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Fayne » Sat May 02, 2015 11:43 am

Will we have the option to have all of our abilities wiped so we can rebuild our characters? Like, have all of our abilities removed, but get the points back for them so that we can go and relearn all the ones we wanted to keep, and then swap out whichever ones we didn't particularly want?

Also, OMG I MUST HAVE THE HERBALISM ABILITIES! *squeals like a little girl*
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Rias » Sat May 02, 2015 11:50 am

Fayne wrote:Will we have the option to have all of our abilities wiped so we can rebuild our characters? Like, have all of our abilities removed, but get the points back for them so that we can go and relearn all the ones we wanted to keep, and then swap out whichever ones we didn't particularly want?


Yeah, forgot to mention this. When Generalized Abilities gets implemented, previously-learned abilities will be removed from your character and you can start with the full allotment of points. There are a couple exceptions, like the Elemancer element focus abilities. I don't want a master hydromancer to suddenly turn into a master geomancer, so those won't be wiped. A few others will be this way too, but I still need to look them all over.

I should note that when the Basic Training ones get wiped, it'll lower the boosted skills by the amount they were boosted. No free skillpoints for you!
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Skah » Sat May 02, 2015 11:56 am

A shared ability pool makes sense, although it opens up balance issues of its own (some abilities have a small number of amazing talents, like the Dwaedn, whereas some guilds have a ton of less powerful "core" abilities). I'm also a bit worried that players will have a big incentive to never take interesting but "weak" abilities related to their guild. Still, very neat stuff!

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Rias » Sat May 02, 2015 12:07 pm

Skah wrote:I'm also a bit worried that players will have a big incentive to never take interesting but "weak" abilities related to their guild.


While not eliminating the issue, I am considering shuffling and combining some stuff like this. The Templar chants, for instance, will likely be combined into a single Sacred Chant ability, and there will be a new mechanic to determine how and when different specific chants can be used. Suggestions on this topic are welcome.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby preiman » Sat May 02, 2015 12:16 pm

I am actually happy two weapon combat is being looked into. it's true there were some styles that relied on using a weapon in both hands, these were usually either with lite weapons, or with a heavy and lite weapon. the idea of two rapiers, longswords, maces or the like always seemed a bit off, and this is coming from a man who has used these weapons, i can't even think how you might use two at once, a longsword and dagger, or even short sword i can see, two daggers, or rapier and dagger even, a couple hatchets, that sort of thing makes sense.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Skah » Sat May 02, 2015 12:20 pm

That's a great approach. I do think a separate ability pool would have even bigger balance issues, and any big set of changes is going to have to deal with some balance stuff.

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby sona » Sat May 02, 2015 12:23 pm

This makes me a bit less anxious about the change, thanks for the details Rias. I'm still not entirely fond of some guilds getting access to super secret/special stuff, and other guilds not, but it sounds like there will be significant sacrifice to those guilds if they wish to remain functional in them. (Ie: elemancers/rooks/druids/monks/etc as relevant will have to spend a considerable portion of their point pool to have anything more than low level 'special' abilities).

I don't have experience with all skills/abilities (somehow), and if I had any real concerns about the system now, it'd be more along the lines of wouldn't everyone be inclined to take non-boring bonuses, and challenge grind up various skills without the boring bonuses? Will artisan abilities like blacksmithing focus, lapidary focus, leatherworking focus, etc, take the respective levels of blacksmithing: apprentice, journeyman, master and stick them under a single ability? I think I had another question or two, but they slipped my mind, and I'll probably post them later.

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Rias » Sat May 02, 2015 12:32 pm

I think Jirato and myself are in full agreement that the Artisan abilities in general need a severe re-work. I'd say the Boring Bonus ones (that's what - 90% of Artisan abilities?) need to be combined and given something on top of the Boring Bonuses to give them some real appeal.

Also, did I mention some Artisan-only new metal alloys are in the works? Because some Artisan-only new metal alloys are in the works.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby sona » Sat May 02, 2015 12:36 pm

Hooray! You hadn't, but that's really something to look forward to. I look forward to seeing/hearing more about artisan rework stuff, it sounds like the general abilities move is actually a huge pile of work, we're not expecting it to be implemented in the near future (next 3 months) are we? we're looking at a longer term, maybe 6 months-1 year sort of time frame to see it turned out, or is it really hard to estimate it like that?

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby sona » Sat May 02, 2015 3:42 pm

I remember what my other question was! With the introduction of general points for abilities and generalizations, what will become of tasks, how will they be rewarded, since promotion points won't be earned/applicable?

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Kunren » Sat May 02, 2015 4:02 pm

I swear with every word I hear about general abilities, I love them even more. Is there anything stopping you from getting none of your guild specific abilities at all? That would just seem weird to me, like, an elemancer with JUST the herbalism stuff as an example.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Elystole » Sat May 02, 2015 4:35 pm

A dabbled with a few different profession skills while trying to figure out what I liked or making some riln, and I'm not concerned about suddenly sucking at them. They aren't really a part of Elystole's character though I do like the idea of a frontiersman knowing enough about a few things so as not to embarrass himself in a handyman or survival scenario which I think is something that we have discussed. He can make nails and repair his knife, but when his super spiffy axe is damage he sends it straight to Ardor. I am somewhat concerned that the over 1000 ranks he has in leatherworking are suddenly going to become useless on account of not being able to afford the abilities that I need to rebuild his character concept.

Can you please elaborate on what looks like abilities that were one ability (or no ability) being broken into multiple abilities or acquiring prerequisites? Or how large our pool is going to be?

For example, it looks like that I'm going to have to take Buschraft Basics and Bushcraft: Tracking to replace my tracking ability. And I may need some of the other six Bushcraft abilities to do things that I've already been doing. Plus I think I'm going to need to take two Skinning abilities and three Leatherworking abilities if I want my already substantial skill investment to be worth anything. And that's without even touching the combat abilities.

Overall, I think this system is going to be fantastic for the game as a whole and Elystole specifically. I'm just a little concerned that he may actually lose parts of his character concept, and I don't think his character concept was unfocused or overly broad.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Fayne » Sat May 02, 2015 4:38 pm

The ability pool is going to about 20-ish he said in the Skype call.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Rias » Sun May 03, 2015 3:27 pm

With the introduction of general points for abilities and generalizations, what will become of tasks, how will they be rewarded, since promotion points won't be earned/applicable?

Tasks will remain, at the very least, to give guild members something to do, and to help convey the feel and goals of that guild. The guilds do expect their members to further the guild's cause. Some guilds will continue to use points for some basic services, like purchases at guild shops and receiving certain services. One idea is to continue to give recognition points and have a monthly requirement to retain membership in a guild. If you suddenly decide you don't want to go out and do your guild's tasks anymore because you find them inconvenient or boring, your guild isn't going to be too happy about your abandoning your duties and you'll be put on probation or suffer other penalties.

I am somewhat concerned that the over 1000 ranks [Elystole] has in leatherworking are suddenly going to become useless on account of not being able to afford the abilities that I need to rebuild his character concept.

You'll have plenty enough points to maintain how you currently play your character. The issue you'll likely have is "Well, I have all these new things I want to be able to do as well now with generalization, but my points are spread pretty thin" which is, to a point, the reason for limiting the points. We want people to have to make decisions instead of just picking up everything that they want and not picking up the things they weren't interested in in the first place.

On the subject of high skill numbers in skills people will no longer be able to utilize, we're considering a system that funnels those points into a bonus to other skills as those skill numbers go down. So if you decide that, now that you can't just do everything, you no longer want all those Fletching ranks, you can set your Fletching skill points to be abandoned. To make it so people don't feel that all the skilling up was wasted, some of those points will translate into bonuses for other skillgains you get.

Can you please elaborate on what looks like abilities that were one ability (or no ability) being broken into multiple abilities or acquiring prerequisites? Or how large our pool is going to be?

The ability point pool will be around 20ish, most likely.

Breaking some abilities up into multiples is to set prerequisites and prevent people from simply cherry-picking all the "good" abilities, and to make it so that some of the more powerful/effective/focused abilities essentially cost more points than others and require a focus in that sort of field. With profession/crafting in particular, we wanted to require more of an investment than a single point to be especially good at an entire professional/crafting field. After all, we don't just have a single "swords" ability that unlocks every single sword-based move. You pick up Melee Focus, then Weapon Specialization: Swords, and now you can pick up some additional nifty sword-specific abilities. It'd be goofy if you could just randomly have this super sword technique ability without anything else to indicate your character specializes in combat at all.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Acarin » Sun May 03, 2015 6:05 pm

Just a couple things. I believe that there have been changes to the bonus basic training provides in some guilds after basic training was first implemented. An example would be that several skills were added after Shar basic training was first implemented and it didn't look like these points were added. I'd hate to see ranks I've actually earned just disappear if you decide to drop these ranks. Any way that this has been tracked?

Second, will each guild (non-magical) still retain a set of guild specific abilities or are they ALL going to be generalized as long as prereqs are met? I'm thinking in terms of high level abilities like assassinate, etc. which seem a bit strange for general use.

Edit: Apologies as this is sort of a repeat question but I'm wondering if there will only be a couple guild specific abilities and mostly in magical guilds or if each guild will have something unique ability-wise still.

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Kunren » Sun May 03, 2015 7:21 pm

Are there any plans to reward points for absolutely amazing RP or something similar? I don't know how I would feel about the idea personally but it might be something to consider rarely.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby qinweiqi » Mon May 04, 2015 7:42 am

Rias wrote:
What's with the Bushcraft "Lore" abilities?

I think these are pretty neat. It gives your character a chance to show that they really do specialize in that type of environment. In addition to some basic (and boring) bonuses like increased foraging/searching/hiding/combat rolls, they can also grant the ability to find exclusive resources in those areas as well as utilize the terrain in combat. Being a pro at Woodland Lore, for instance, would grant you some combat bonuses due to being used to moving around with trees and thick roots and all that in the way, and therefore grant some nifty extra moves like avoiding a blow by darting behind a tree (extra chance to avoid attacks), or luring an approaching foe toward some roots that they will trip over.

There will probably be some similar "Environment Lore" abilities that aren't specifically bushcraft.

My one worry, of course, is that Fred the Fighter will take the "Lore" abilities just for the edge in combat, even though it might not make any sense for his character. Like if Fred were born and raised in the deserts of Nuum, but he picks up Woodland Lore because hey sweet, combat bonuses! I wish I could find an easy way to restrict these to character histories or something. (Cue every fighter from this point on being a world traveler who has experienced every single environment)

Will the exclusive resources be well documented (IE, will we know what exclusive resources we're gaining access to and at least some idea of where to find them) or will we have to just find out ICly after we pick the ability up? Related to that, how OOC is the ability system going to be? (I assume 100% OOC)

Are the exclusive resources going to be new resources or limiting existing resources to [environment] experts?

Also, regarding how to limit what environment expertise abilities can be taken, you could cap it like elemancy masteries (will generalization change that at all?) or perhaps consider adding a new measurable requirement. Like requiring that a character spend a number of in-game hours in that type of locale and/or making a certain number of rolls in that environment. I would think the latter is the better prerequisite since the former is very easy to obtain by going somewhere and hiding for a week or so, however it would likely be the more programmatically intensive since I don't think there is currently a mechanic to count rolls and likely not every type of roll should count:
  • Combat, foraging and stealth make sense for wilderness, as well as any other skills that would be buffed by the specialization
  • I'm a little more fuzzy on carving/knapping/first aid - skills which can really be performed anywhere and aren't (mechanically) affected by environment

The benefit of counting rolls vs. counting hours is that the rolls takes into account the level of engagement in an environment and since pretty much every kind of roll has some kind of associated round time, the time requirement gets baked into it. Alternatively, since there are already mechanics in place to measure skill gains, perhaps require a certain number of skill gains in [list of relevant skills] be obtained in [relevant environment] -- though that still requires some coding additions to tie location into skill points gained.

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Kunren » Mon May 04, 2015 8:01 am

Though the idea of prerequisites is fun, I don't think the basic abilities should have overly heavy or complex ones. These are supposed to be deciding pretty much what your character is naturally good at right? I don't wanna spend a month(or even a week) sitting in the woods with a character that has supposedly spent most of his life there(which is why I'm getting the ability in the first place) just to get a single ability.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Rias » Mon May 04, 2015 8:54 am

I believe that there have been changes to the bonus basic training provides in some guilds after basic training was first implemented. An example would be that several skills were added after Shar basic training was first implemented and it didn't look like these points were added. I'd hate to see ranks I've actually earned just disappear if you decide to drop these ranks. Any way that this has been tracked?

We can do some sleuthing.

Second, will each guild (non-magical) still retain a set of guild specific abilities or are they ALL going to be generalized as long as prereqs are met?

Some will, some won't. It doesn't have to be magical in nature to be exclusive, magical skills are just the ones that are most obviously going to remain guild-specific. Trade secrets and extremely specialized nonmagical abilities will remain guild-exclusive.

Some guilds, however, will probably have few, if any, exclusive guild abilities. We plan to keep these guilds mechanically unique regardless via exclusive items, services, and/or facilities, though some will likely still be considered "not as powerful" as others. Somewhere in there, I know RP has some influence on what guild people choose. (Hint: It should be the primary reason you choose to join a guild at all)

Are there any plans to reward points for absolutely amazing RP or something similar? I don't know how I would feel about the idea personally but it might be something to consider rarely.

This is a can of worms I'd rather not open (shouts of favoritism, etc.), but I'm not completely opposed to the idea.

Will the exclusive resources be well documented (IE, will we know what exclusive resources we're gaining access to and at least some idea of where to find them) or will we have to just find out ICly after we pick the ability up?

Some may be noted while others may not. There will probably be unique messaging when you get exclusive things to let you know that you are indeed getting something special out of your ability, however.

how OOC is the ability system going to be? (I assume 100% OOC)

The system to pick up the generalized abilities will be done via the ability command and will not necessarily require any IC action like going to an NPC to learn it. I think it'd be neat to have some require being taught the ability by an NPC (or even a PC), though.

One thing I think is a big perk of this system is that your character can come "out of the box" with some abilities core to the character concept, accounting for an assumed history and backstory. Your character who has spent much of their life as a woodsman, for instance, can start right off the bat with some bushcraft, skinning, and leatherworking abilities.

Are the exclusive resources going to be new resources or limiting existing resources to [environment] experts?

New stuff. If anything current gets changed to be exclusive, it'll be things that don't currently have any use, like atlas stem, possibly. But for the most part, it'll be new stuff.

Also, regarding how to limit what environment expertise abilities can be taken, you could cap it like elemancy masteries (will generalization change that at all?) or perhaps consider adding a new measurable requirement. Like requiring that a character spend a number of in-game hours in that type of locale and/or making a certain number of rolls in that environment.

Limiting the number of lore expertises is something I've considered. I don't want them to have all the lengthy requirements because again, they're partially there to help reinforce implied character backstories and stuff.
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby qinweiqi » Mon May 04, 2015 9:52 am

Rias wrote:
how OOC is the ability system going to be? (I assume 100% OOC)

The system to pick up the generalized abilities will be done via the ability command and will not necessarily require any IC action like going to an NPC to learn it. I think it'd be neat to have some require being taught the ability by an NPC (or even a PC), though.


I like this idea, it really seems to fit for some things like elemancy (I think). Being able to learn things from PCs as well as NPCs is cool, I've enjoyed the teach and tutor commands quite a bit.

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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Kunren » Tue May 05, 2015 8:10 pm

Balancing this is gonna be real fun. What happens when a master brofist gets ahold of flurry and can do 22 strikes per round? Or when a master aeromancer with the fancy new dodging ability gets ahold of tumble as well, and both blade slap and arrow deflection? And a light journeyman aeromancer could move through wilderness rooms with a round time of about 1 if he picks up trailblazer. Templars in heavy armor are going to jump for joy when they can rechannel in 1 second instead of 3 when their channel fails over and over(or can they do that now? Can't recall). Dwaeden will finally have their defensive brawling abilities to accentuate their stupid amount of offense. I'm sure other combinations will be even more crazy(and that's not even counting whatever the enhancers will do). Maybe you could enlist a few players to help prettest fun stuff like that in the ooc arena? XD
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Fayne » Tue May 05, 2015 8:15 pm

Someone punching and kicking 22 times over the course of 5 seconds sounds scary, bot only because of damage output, but because I'm pretty sure they would create a rip in the fabric of space and time, or at least somehow make the sun go supernova. Hehe
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Re: General Abilities questions

Postby Rias » Tue May 05, 2015 9:16 pm

Aeromancy tumble and mundane tumble wouldn't stack, so you wouldn't benefit from learning both, other than having a little variety in your messaging, I suppose. You'd only have a chance to do one or the other, not both.

I didn't think flurry worked with the unarmed combat system. Unarmed combat is already quite flurry-ish with its zillion-and-a-half strikes. If flurry just multiplies unarmed strikes then that'll be looked at, for sure.

If an aeromancer picks up arrow deflect, that's on them - seems superfluous with aero shield already available. Blade Slap seems fine for an aeromancer to use if they so choose - it's inferior to parrying with most weapons, so I don't see how it's overpowering at all for anyone. It's just useful for those who prefer unarmed combat over weapon combat.

I don't see a problem with Templar choosing to spend some of their limited points on quickchannel. A templar who does a lot of Spear of Light-ing over weapon combat actually sounds pretty nifty.

Dwaedn being able to pick up some defensive abilities I'm all right with, as long as they don't go with pansy metal armor and shield abilities. They don't strictly need to hurl themselves in front of blows, after all. If they want to bat away strikes coming at them, more power to 'em (and again, they can already pick up a weapon and parry more effectively than Blade Slap already, like anyone else).

If anything comes up that's some sort of uber overpowered combination, you can be confident we'll take care of it somehow. Feel free to post more potentially worrisome combos here for our consideration.
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