Who's the star of your guild?

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Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Rias » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:48 pm

YOU are! Not some NPC.

I mean, sure - the NPCs are the ones in the administrative positions, but think of them more as keeping internal operations running smoothly, providing training, dispensing information when necessary - stuff like that. When it comes to taking action and getting out into the field though, you are the one to do it. You're the player character, you're the one we want to be the hero (or villain), the one who makes a difference! Please don't pass the buck to the NPCs - the last thing we want to do is make our own NPCs solve our quests and events. If we wanted to do that, we'd write a book or make a movie or something else non-interactive.

You can assume that the NPCs are indeed very busy doing their jobs, and in general, doing them well, even if they're not the situations you're especially aware of. Sometimes the NPCs will get really involved alongside the player characters, but let's not fall into the mindset of "Oh, nothing has been done about this - my guild is slacking." You're a member of that guild! If you think your guild should be doing something about a situation, then get out there and do your part! Don't let the NPCs save/change/take over the world while you just idle along.

Remember: Guilds in the Lost Lands generally aren't enormous organizations with thousands or even hundreds of members. Most of them have very few members - those few members primarily being player characters. There are a couple exceptions, like the Coalition and Guild of Thieves, but other groups like the Monks, Templar, Wyrvardn, Udemi, Utasa - they might have a fair number of "employees" sitting at desks, doing paperwork, and providing training to make the guild operate on an internal level, but the "field agents", the heroes, the ones that are expected to be out there and active and making a difference out in the world - that's mainly you guys, the player characters. Don't just assume that if you don't deal with something, there'll be some NPC to pick up the slack, or that the NPCs should be the ones to initiate action, and you'll just follow their lead.

P.S. This is not in response to remarks about the Elemancy situation. We know you elemancers are trying your darndest!
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby sona » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:53 pm

What are the options for NPC 'leaderships' granting boons, or power to determine the course that a guild takes? Because individual PCs are a part of the guild, the leadership of the guild gets to decide whether or not they want PCs taking certain action, or if they're happy to let them do as they will. Can PCs spark battles, wars, political intrigue, etc. If PCs are to be the 'stars' of the show, I think they may require organizational power and/or backing to act in ways that might 'shake up' things. Or not.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Rias » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:01 pm

I've often said on the GM channels that I wanted to just off guild NPCs in some way or other and make players run them. The problem then being, of course, that players might expect to have command over substantial resources both human and non, which non-GMs can't really do.

So, my solution? Destroy the majority of the major guilds almost completely, let the players pick up the bare minimum pieces, and carry on completely on their own as completely player-run organizations. I don't think that's going to be an acceptable solution though, and I don't guru any guilds anymore at this point, anyway. Heh heh.

I will say that Jirato tried to do what you suggested with Tse Gaiyan - give positions of authority to the PCs so they could govern and take action more on their own instead of relying on NPC leaders. The result seemed to be that the majority of Tse Gaiyan PCs went inactive, many hopping to alts in guilds that were less driven in purpose and more "relaxed".
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Rias » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:03 pm

I should also say that I think every guild is going to want their members to be proactive instead of just saying "here's the situation, leader - you handle it." I think it's fair to say that we expect PCs to know whether a situation should warrant particular caution. If you think you're about to do something that will spark a large-scale faction war or something, then yeah, maybe run it by your fellow guildmembers and leaders, first. Otherwise, I say go out there and do what you feel is right by what you know of your guild's general guidelines and standards.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby sona » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:15 pm

My guild is money, money, money. They're so neutral, that wouldn't seem interested in taking any sense of action. I've even seen them roll over on Dunwyr topics which is more personal. How can I expect them to support any action other than sit on your thumbs? I'd love to chat with you back and forth about recent stuff. But I don't want to do so here and expose various RP thingies.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Akila » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:20 pm

This is why I love being a mummer so much. Sure, I have Mayhew to answer to and Akila is getting super sulky he won't teach her the super-secret guild ability yet, but there are enough clues and suggestions about the camp that tells me what to do. From the atmospheric text to the descriptions and even the things we can buy and abilities. "Okay. I'm a mummer. I tell stories, sing songs, act, entertain, go into astrology/divination/reading tea leaves and tarot cards and can be pretty creepy if I want to be. Mummers have a sense of mystery about them I should try keep. Oh.. but my home is pretty exposed and I often leave to find a rogue canim out there. Better learn to protect myself and be able to protect the camp and my fellow mummers too!" Yay mummers guild!
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Kunren » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:34 am

So basically we are the football quarterbacks and the npc leadership are coaches/game organizers? coolio. Look at me making a sports comparison. Let's see... I think something that would really help with doing this are guild charters with general rules, guidelines, and a section for current overarching goals. This would give PCs some direction, how to do things the right way(and not the right way, if they like), and would tell them what their guild needs. Then, the PC could decide how to achieve that goal, and apply their own interpretations of the guild rules/guidelines to their own personal goals as well. Yes, A Savvy player might be able to get all of this knowledge in general over time, but I think overarching goals for the guild would be very helpful at the least. I'm still not exactly sure what Irwins long term plans are or how I can help achieve them, besides "Fight. get riln. profit." This would allow the kind of freedom that would allow the game to grow and change in fun ways, yet doesn't have extremely powerful PCs staring at walls waiting for GMs to pick up a storyline for them and give them info on what their guild needs them to do.
Last edited by Kunren on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Kunren » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:36 am

Rias wrote:I've often said on the GM channels that I wanted to just off guild NPCs in some way or other and make players run them. The problem then being, of course, that players might expect to have command over substantial resources both human and non, which non-GMs can't really do.

I will say that Jirato tried to do what you suggested with Tse Gaiyan - give positions of authority to the PCs so they could govern and take action more on their own instead of relying on NPC leaders. The result seemed to be that the majority of Tse Gaiyan PCs went inactive, many hopping to alts in guilds that were less driven in purpose and more "relaxed".

I'd personally adore player led guilds as well, but as you say the logistics would be hard. As for the the gaiyan thing... +1 Jirato, that was awesome of you. I'm very disappointed in the the gaiyan members in that situation.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Rias » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:21 am

Sona wrote:My guild is money, money, money. They're so neutral, that wouldn't seem interested in taking any sense of action.
That sounds about right. My guess would be as long as you don't personally bring disaster upon or defame your guild, you should be fine.


I've even seen them roll over on Dunwyr topics which is more personal.
How would you handle the Dunwyr situation? Who are the Dunwyr leaders, and where do they reside? Do they even have any? Where is their base of operations, if any? Where/at whom would you strike? How would you discover this information? A big part of the reason Dunwyr survive is because nobody knows how to strike back at them. How do you retaliate against a bunch of crazy survivalists who don't believe in setting up any permanent camps or bases, require no significant rarer resources and don't depend on trade so can't be cut off economically, are very stealthy and can move quickly and unseen, and can make do just about anywhere in the wild, vast wilderness? Attack forces have shown up in their perceived territories in the past, only to discover there's simply nobody there to fight against.

So, I'm not sure what you expect Irwin to pull out of his hat that the PCs can't do. He's given missions and posted bounties in the past. I imagine he'd love to cut off the head of the Dunwyr "organization", but that requires first discovering the identity of and locating that head, if there even is one. They could just be a bunch of independent savages roving the wilderness with the vague common cultural goal of "harass the civilized people", for all anyone knows. Systematically wipe them out? That's something the PCs work toward without any special resources from Irwin, and better than Irwin - who is only one man - can do. Irwin has already directed them to do in the past from what I understand - there have definitely been bounties posted on Dunwyr in general. "Have Irwin mobilize his mercenary force to help us!" His mercenary force is the player characters. Sure, there are some NPC ones as well so we can use them when we need to, but again, we don't want our own NPCs to resolve the conflicts and events in CLOK. The reason the conflicts and events exist is for the players to get involved.

Note: This isn't to say that PCs can solve every single conflict that comes up. You can't win every ball game. Sometimes conflict will continue to exist despite the efforts of players. This is because CLOK would be fairly pointless and boring if every threat was disposed of and the Lost Lands was all hunky-dory and peaceful. And anyway, that scenario is pretty unrealistic. You have to realize how crappy the Lost Lands are. The inhabitants are fighting just to survive - I can't think of any guild, group, or other organization that's in any position to say "okay, we have a chance to clean up the Lost Lands and make it a thriving peaceful land." It's more "okay, we have a chance to survive out here, and possibly help other people to survive as well." I know all the fancy buildings and clothing seem to suggest otherwise sometimes, but that's the situation in the Quarantine.

Kunren wrote:I'm still not exactly sure what Irwins long term plans are or how I can help achieve them, besides "Fight. get riln. profit."
I don't speak for your guild, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's just about it. I know that when they were created, they were specifically created to be a fighter/warrior-type guild without all the guidelines, ideals, spiritual beliefs, and/or behavioral standards that existed within other warrior guilds (Templar and Dwaedn).

Some guilds are specifically designed to not be especially driven or with any set creed or overarching "endgame" goal. The Coalition guilds were created to be exactly that. Jirato can speak on if things have changed since then, as that was years ago, but that's always been my view of them.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby vidor » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:43 am

Kunren wrote:
Rias wrote:I've often said on the GM channels that I wanted to just off guild NPCs in some way or other and make players run them. The problem then being, of course, that players might expect to have command over substantial resources both human and non, which non-GMs can't really do.

I will say that Jirato tried to do what you suggested with Tse Gaiyan - give positions of authority to the PCs so they could govern and take action more on their own instead of relying on NPC leaders. The result seemed to be that the majority of Tse Gaiyan PCs went inactive, many hopping to alts in guilds that were less driven in purpose and more "relaxed".

I'd personally adore player led guilds as well, but as you say the logistics would be hard. As for the the gaiyan thing... +1 Jirato, that was awesome of you. I'm very disappointed in the the gaiyan members in that situation.


Okay. Let's talk about that last statement for a second. I'm going to explain my reasoning (and why I'm not playing vidor anymore) because, while I'm not particularly concerned whether people are disappointed in me, I think, as the person slated for guild leadership, I should hsare what was going on.
For people who don't know, I'm a full-time college student working two jobs and preparing for lawschool next year. To put it simply, as much as I love Clok, it's one of my unwinding sources. I log on because, in a world of decisions and work, I'm looking for some degree of escapism. I'm not saying this to suggest nobody else is busy. I'm saying it because I made the decision (and stand by it) that taking leadership of a guild primarily staffed by alts (a guild whos' primary rp has been based around members not doing what they're supposed to on ooc and ic levels) did not and does not appeal to me. We went from a guild run by a very active GM to the assumption that players would run it. This is nobody's fault, but it was a responsibility I neither signed up for nor wanted. So I decided not to do it, primarily retired my character, and made another which provides me with fun rp, interesting quests, and the ability to enjoy what is, in reality, a game. I have always said that the minute I felt like I had to log into Clok to take care of things, I'd be a Vidor-shaped hole in the wall. The amount of stress on Skype, teamtalk, chat, tells, and more re: ooc and ic things within the Tse Gaiyan became more unpleasant than real-life stresses.
So please, in the future, don't talk about being "disappointed"in players as if you are let down by people deciding that rl is more important than a game. For those who have the time and energy to dedicate towards managing the ic and ooc interpersonal communication, sociology, and leader-ship based tasks of managing a guild, go forth and do it. Cutos to you. But athat should not be the expectation of a game.
Sorry if this comes across as super grumpy. I just didn't expect people to be disappointed in my decisions like I got a bad grade on a homework assignment or something.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Kunren » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:22 am

I need to apologize to you guys. I did not even think about that perspective personally, it just seemed to me like it would have been an awesome first step forward to what I would consider an amazing thing (guilds led by PCs) and hearing that the PCs just noped irritated me slightly, itd be like hearing someone got your favorite food and just threw it in the trash can or something, I guess. But yes, you guys have your own lives and IRL responsibilities, its unfair of me to not take that into account. Upon further reflection, I am dissapointed not in you guys personally, but in that the situation itself turned out as it did.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby vidor » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:45 am

Kunren wrote:I need to apologize to you guys. I did not even think about that perspective personally, it just seemed to me like it would have been an awesome first step forward to what I would consider an amazing thing (guilds led by PCs) and hearing that the PCs just noped irritated me slightly, itd be like hearing someone got your favorite food and just threw it in the trash can or something, I guess. But yes, you guys have your own lives and IRL responsibilities, its unfair of me to not take that into account. Upon further reflection, I am dissapointed not in you guys personally, but in that the situation itself turned out as it did.
Hey man, thank you so much. I'm so used to internet arguments basically being "no, screw you" that an actual apology really made my day. Sorry if I came across as a total tool, and thanks for reading my novella. :)

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Dorn » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:08 pm

vidor wrote:
Kunren wrote:I need to apologize to you guys. I did not even think about that perspective personally, it just seemed to me like it would have been an awesome first step forward to what I would consider an amazing thing (guilds led by PCs) and hearing that the PCs just noped irritated me slightly, itd be like hearing someone got your favorite food and just threw it in the trash can or something, I guess. But yes, you guys have your own lives and IRL responsibilities, its unfair of me to not take that into account. Upon further reflection, I am dissapointed not in you guys personally, but in that the situation itself turned out as it did.
Hey man, thank you so much. I'm so used to internet arguments basically being "no, screw you" that an actual apology really made my day. Sorry if I came across as a total tool, and thanks for reading my novella. :)


D'aww. Now hug.

Though seriously, this is something that doesn't just happen to players but GMs. At the end of the day, it's a game, and people come on for fun or because they enjoy setting the scene for others to have fun. When it goes beyond that, not cool. Regardless of their position.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Vaylon » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:54 pm

I have risked my life, limb, and reputation for the guild in various ways -- most recently by wrapping up some loose ends -- and in exchange have gotten no recognition for it. Don't get me wrong -- I don't expect or want monetary rewards. But, like any other person, I like being acknowledged and praised for work that I do for the guild that is above and beyond what's asked or expected of us.

I also realize there's no guru for my guild right now, which makes it especially problematic for me. Honestly, I began to get the impression that no one in charge really cares about the guild or wants it to continue existing, which is one reason I disappeared for a while.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Kunren » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:45 pm

Vaylon wrote:I have risked my life, limb, and reputation for the guild in various ways -- most recently by wrapping up some loose ends -- and in exchange have gotten no recognition for it. Don't get me wrong -- I don't expect or want monetary rewards. But, like any other person, I like being acknowledged and praised for work that I do for the guild that is above and beyond what's asked or expected of us.

I also realize there's no guru for my guild right now, which makes it especially problematic for me. Honestly, I began to get the impression that no one in charge really cares about the guild or wants it to continue existing, which is one reason I disappeared for a while.

I can see this view as well, somewhat. Rias says that we are the driving forces in our guilds, but it feels like in the ones I've personally experienced the upper crust of guilds doesn't particularly Differentiate us from the invisible npcs who don't directly influence cloks storyline. I mean, we don't need medals for doing our duty in a situation, but having some sort of recognition after doing something above and beyond beneficial for the guild would be nice. I've suggested a ranking system of sorts for at least mercenaries, though I'm not certain how similar systems would be implemented for guilds to show promotions for work well done or anything like that. A plaque in some guilds detailing important events in the guilds history and how PCs influenced said events, good or bad? I don't know. I didn't even realize it until Rias brought it up earlier, but my perspectives as mostly a merc are probably going to be different from other guilds, as the two coalition guilds biggest goals aren't really specific goals that can be achieved over time, but general profit.

As for the lack of Guruship, all I can say is be patient and trust in the GMs, really. Jirato and others are working real hard to keep up with the extra responsibilities I'm sure, and eventually Vinz will come back to his guilds if I'm not mistaken, and from what I know of him he really adores working with them.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby sona » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:49 pm

There's a certain skill in being able to juggle everything. GMs tackling various tasks and responsibilities, PCs/players doing the same.We have no mechanism for players to step up and poke at things without approval or interaction from GMs. The caveat for this is that players can do non-progressive RP and actions, which may or may not be noticed by GMs and may not be acted upon. Which, I admit can be a bit frustrating. I liked working and interacting with NPCs, because they were (are?) a pretty important component to the game. They, not the players, represent authorities, hold positions of power, are the mechanisms by which plots and storylines are furthered and enhanced. By the logic presented, made to make PCs seem like the powerhouses of the game, able to work and shape the Lost Lands more or less at their will, through actions not-consulted by GMs/NPCs.

I don't mean to come across as terribly annoyed, it is what it is. The game has undergone multiple shifts in a short period of time, which can be trying. 1) Rias leaves, 2) Majority of the GM staff leaves, gets sacked, or fades into the background (I haven't seen or heard anything from Selene or Noctere, not sure if others have either). 3) Control shifts to Rias and Jirato handling most stuff, I've been a little bit MIA and back and forth myself, perhaps the new event staff has been doing a good deal.

The positive is moving forward and doing stuff with or without PC presense, is that when PCs poke about again, they can choose to push against, or to push with whatever's going on in game.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Noctere » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:46 pm

Oh don't worry, I'm still here. I tend to lurk in the background.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Rias » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:14 pm

I think I may not have communicated my feelings accurately. I'm not saying you should never ever expect an NPC to do anything for you/your guild (although you shouldn't expect NPCs to be active via GMs on a constant basis). What I'm getting at is when a situation comes up, and people look to the NPCs to handle the situation or make the calls. If NPC action is required for something to progress, we'll make it happen. But generally, we want to give a mission or plot hook or whatever as NPCs, and then let the PCs at the situation - they should be the ones to come up with the plans, secure the resources (when possible for PCs to do so), and participate in the battles. Maybe some examples would help.

Situation: A hamlet is under attack.
Warren Wyrvardn, a player character, hears about the attack. He runs to his Wyrvardn NPC guildmasters and asks for them to mobilize their (NPC) forces.
My issue with this: Warren Wyrvardn should be running in himself to confront the situation, and rallying other PCs to his cause/relief effort - not running to NPCs and asking them to take care of the problem. Reporting the situation is one thing, but expecting/demanding a bunch of NPCs rush in all cavalry style isn't good.
What would make me ten times grumpier (and this kind of thing has happened in the past): Warren Wyrvardn participates (or doesn't), then laments that his fellow Wyrvardn (NPCs) didn't show up to help, and criticizes his own guild for their inaction when really we as GMs are, if anything, holding back to give the PCs a chance to be the heroes.

Situation: Some infested have set up a secret den in a town.
Ulysses Utasa notices some suspicious fungusy people stealthily entering a home in town. Ulysses sends a letter to his NPC guildmaster and suggests they send someone to investigate.
My issue with this: Ulysses should be the one doing the investigation, not just reporting the incident and passing the buck to NPCs. Utasa PCs have the tools to (at least attempt to) make their way into locked homes for this reason.

Situation: A lich has taken over an abandoned town and is operating extra aggressively from it as a base of operations, sending nethrim minions to harass anyone nearby.
Tony Templar learns of the situation. He reports it to his guildleader and asks for orders.
My issue with this: Tony should be attempting to be the catalyzing force himself, and doing what he can to come up with a plan of action, whether that's on his own or by consulting his PC friends and allies. He can then present the plan to his leaders and get their opinion if he has reservations before acting (or requires some kind of GM support to enact his plan, though we prefer PCs look for ways to act on their own first (not always possible, I understand)). If he doesn't have reservations or require GM support for his plan, he could just go forward with it. Be the one to take action an get things moving.

I hope that helps clear things up. Yeah, a lot of the time GM action is required to enact certain things during events. However, this shouldn't be taken as us wanting the players to just report to their superiors and then await orders so the NPCs can tell them exactly what to do. Come up with your own plans. Enact them to the extent you are able as a non-GM. Yes, continue to report to your superiors or other NPC parties that would appreciate being informed of the situation, but don't make these reports essentially demands for NPC action/reinforcements/orders. "Here's the situation, here's the best plan I could come up with to address the situation. I'll keep you apprised; if you have an issue with my plan or know of a better one, I'd be glad to hear it."

And yeah, the GMs aren't watching everything all the time. It's not a bad thing to send us an email (clok@contrarium.net) now and then just to say "by the way, here's what my character has been up to, and here is what I'm hoping they'll be able to accomplish in the end."

I get the wanting to know that your character's efforts are recognized. I've tried to do things in the past to recognize people that took decisive action or went above and beyond, but we just can't keep track of everything that everyone's doing. I'll just say it: We're short-staffed. We've got a ton of guilds, too may towns, and a bunch of factions. One thing I've enjoyed about just being the guru of just some towns is that towns are far more encompassing and inclusive than guilds. Each guild has its own people to recognize, its own NPCs to run and keep track of, its own facilities to maintain - ugh, it's exhausting just keeping track of them all and keeping them all separate in your brain! Being guru over towns, it's a much wider sphere of influence with far fewer NPCs/faction data to keep track of. I've been trying to recognize people that are getting themselves involved, because some really cool stuff has been going on both in support of the towns and in opposition to the towns. I only have a handful of major NPCs I really need to manage (most of which fall under the same umbrella factions), only two major factions I need to worry about minutiae for, and yet these NPCs and factions are important and relevant to a large majority of the player characters. It's pretty much bliss.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby vidor » Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:42 am

I think this is hugely important to understand. A lot of other RP-based muds are very different from clok. Because, in those muds, the gms usually know exactly what they want players to do and, if players begin to deviate, the gms get upset. In most muds the idea is "get permission, then do." However, since the Clok GMs are (almost always) keeping an eye on what's going on, and this is supplemented with think, request, and more, it's more of a "if you're not getting swatted with a rolled up newspaper, the GMs are at least accepting of your current path."
I know for a long time I was afraid to do anything leadershippy because I was nervous my npc guild leaders would yell at me. I do like the idea of a standardized explaination of how guilds function and what the right path of members is, like described above.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Jaster » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:54 pm

Superstar!

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby merin » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:45 am

There are some situations that aren't as cut and dry:
Keth was attacked, and I live there. I didn't want to take PCs out of their actuall playing life. I sent a letter to Irwin and asked him how much riln it would cost me to hire mercenaries to guard the town center of Keth until we got things working and opporational again. Unfortunately, I didn't even get a reply.

Should I have hired a mercenary tos tand in the town square for hours on end simply to lose all their interest in playing? I don't think that's fair.

Considering I live in keth, it's important that I restore that. In order to do so, I was stonewalled because I had thought of the actual players that would have to replace the spear/pikeman. I took the non-response as a gm telling me don't bother, keth is going to get a downgrade. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Why did I use the mercenaries? I'm an artisan. I care about the coalition and it would be my first logical step.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Kunren » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:37 am

merin wrote:There are some situations that aren't as cut and dry:
Keth was attacked, and I live there. I didn't want to take PCs out of their actuall playing life. I sent a letter to Irwin and asked him how much riln it would cost me to hire mercenaries to guard the town center of Keth until we got things working and opporational again. Unfortunately, I didn't even get a reply.

Should I have hired a mercenary tos tand in the town square for hours on end simply to lose all their interest in playing? I don't think that's fair.

Considering I live in keth, it's important that I restore that. In order to do so, I was stonewalled because I had thought of the actual players that would have to replace the spear/pikeman. I took the non-response as a gm telling me don't bother, keth is going to get a downgrade. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Why did I use the mercenaries? I'm an artisan. I care about the coalition and it would be my first logical step.
Personally, I think you chose the simplest choice, and best for your purposes. Yes, it would be better to hire npcs to stand there semi-permanently. But I think some dedicated PCs could have done the job as well since you received no response, they might not be able to do more than an few hours at a time at most, but get 6 or so hired to take shifts and the town could be covered most of the time. especially if they shared shifts so they had someone to talk to instead of just wall staring. Even if it's just a couple brand newbies, give them a chunk of riln big enough and they will wall stare all day I'm sure, hue hue. That kind of thing would be the start of a dynamic change relying on PC action and dedication, and would be the kind of thing that would be possible to do without any GM help. Hard and expensive to arrange (as well as impossible without enough willing PCs I might add)? Yes. But that sort of thing will always be a possibility instead of relying on npcs.
Life is like a box of chocolates. The caramel filled ones are the best.

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Fayne » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:00 am

I nearly posted what was basically a rant how bad GM intervention with an NPC basically ruined my ability to play my main character, but instead I think I'll email Rias with the details and everything and see if something can't be done to fix what happened, because I would really like to be able to play CLOK again.

You know, with what Vidor said about being put in a position that he didn't really want, and with my own experience sucking all the fun out of playing my character, it makes me think that maybe before drastically altering someone's RP by forcing them to leave a guild or putting them in a position of more responsibility than they want or permanently banning them from a town besides Shadgard or Corvus which are mutually exclusive, maybe a GM could contact that person OOCly if possible. Either send them an email or skype message, or send them a PM if you don't have that, and if you can't do that, send them a tell asking for a way to contact them OOC.

You see, I'm not someone who uses the 'think' command. Maybe I should start trying to utilize it more, but I've just never done it, and I'm sure that probably didn't help to avoid the situation that made me stop playing. However, the 'think' command really wouldn't have helped me much, since the way I had planned to proceed with things was purely OOC, and the 'think' command is IC. I didn't really have a way to convey what my plans were with my character's thoughts and feelings without emailing, and I've never recieved a response to an email concerning RP, so I pretty much gave up on doing that.

I am going to write an email and see if the events that made me leave the game can somehow be corrected in an IC way. However, I think it'd be best to just start contacting people OOC before major changes happen to their character and make sure they're at least okay with it happening. If a character is doing something that obviously would cause something major to happen, like getting banned from a town or guild, then confirmation is unneccessary, but when I was, for all intents and purposes, kicked out of my guild, all OOC communication I had had with the guru at the time had made me believe my standing in the guild was getting stronger, and it really blindsided me when I was suddenly kicked out. On top of it all, the reason I was kicked out was something that was confusing and controversial at the time anyway, not even something that was clear-cut.

Anyway, I'm all for having guilds more player-run, not just because of my negative experience, but also because it was something I was aiming for prior to my expulsion, and I think it'd be fun and interesting.
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Jirato » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:16 am

You can save Rias some time and just send that to me instead so he doesn't have to forward it, please. I am the Tse Gaiyan guru. Rias is here for events, and has guruship of Shadgard, Mistral, and Hamlets to assist in events. He has explicitly asked to not be involved in anything else.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Postby Kunren » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:04 pm

I actually quite enjoy being thrown into unexpected situations by GMs, but I can see how that kind of thing could be annoying for some people. As for emailing the team, I'd advise you to keep doing that if I were you, I tend to do it every now and then when possible. The lack of response is a bit off putting, I admit, I can't recall ever recieving a response email personally though I may be mistaken. I suppose the GMs have their reasons for that, though... And pls think loads! It's a useful tool in many ways, and if you can't think of a good reason for your character to think that they should do something in an IC manner, they probably shouldn't do it. I -know- how frustrating that can be, having been in that situation myself for a while, but it's a pretty neccesary thing.
More GM input about where our characters are headed OOCly would be beautiful, but of course loads of work and it'd have to be heavily monitored to avoid storyline spoilers. As for your characters IC events... I'd think of it as a challenge if I were you! how can I get this organization to respect and trust me again? How long will it take if it's even possible? Ect. it at least gives you a solid, concrete purpose, something that some pcs are lacking.
Life is like a box of chocolates. The caramel filled ones are the best.

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