Who's the star of your guild?

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Vaylon
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Post by Vaylon » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:42 pm

Fayne, you have no one to blame for your character's predicament but yourself.

I absolutely would expect to be reprimanded or kicked out of a guild if I constantly griped about how much I hated it and said that I was going to refuse to do my duties.
"I hope you have not been leading a double life, pretending to be wicked and being really good all the time. That would be hypocrisy." - The Importance of Being Earnest, Oscar Wilde

Fayne
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Post by Fayne » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:13 am

I would like to point out that Fayne has never said she hates the Tse Gaiyan. Sure, she can't stand a few of the members, and most of them have pissed her off at least once or twice; that's why she was put on probation in the first place, she got pissed off with other members and stormed out of a meeting.

Also, she never refused to do her duties in the guild. Hell, there were a few times when she was the only or most capable Tse Gaiyan around at the time and dropped what she was doing immediately to go investigate a claim of odd infested behavior. The small event that got her off of probation gave her even more cause to want to do her duty.

The most Fayne has ever seriously spoke out against Tse Gaiyan is when she speaks ill of individual members (and that's aimed at that character, not the guild itself), and when she spoke with close friends while she was on probation about the doubts she had. In fact, since she got kicked out, she hasn't spoken out against the Tse Gaiyan at all. She isn't bitter about not being in the guild anymore, she wants back in.
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vidor
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Post by vidor » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:04 am

Here's what I'll say. Fayne's removal from the guild was a direct response to others' perceptions of her actions. Sometimes we act in one way and it's perceived differently -- that's communication. Actions have consequences, and "that's not what I meant" rarely removes consequences. I'd love to see RP while Fayne tries to get back into the Gaiyan (and I beg you not to read that as "Vidor's giving you support." I just think it would be interesting and could bring about some opportunities for conversation.)
As to your actual frustration, I'm not going to get into what happened (and I beg others not to), particularly not on a bbs. (Fayne, if you want to talk further, I believe you have my Skype, or can send me a pm). That being said, blaming the gms for what happened is not fair to them and, imho, is not the way to be welcomed back into the guild on an ooc or ic level. Figure out why people responded like they did, and, from there, decide whether there's something you can change. If you feel like you did everything right and the Tse Gaiyan responded horribly and unfairly, maybe it's not the right guild for you. Nothing wrong with that, either.

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Lysse
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Post by Lysse » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:54 am

vidor wrote:Here's what I'll say. Fayne's removal from the guild was a direct response to others' perceptions of her actions. Sometimes we act in one way and it's perceived differently -- that's communication. Actions have consequences, and "that's not what I meant" rarely removes consequences. I'd love to see RP while Fayne tries to get back into the Gaiyan (and I beg you not to read that as "Vidor's giving you support." I just think it would be interesting and could bring about some opportunities for conversation.)
As to your actual frustration, I'm not going to get into what happened (and I beg others not to), particularly not on a bbs. (Fayne, if you want to talk further, I believe you have my Skype, or can send me a pm). That being said, blaming the gms for what happened is not fair to them and, imho, is not the way to be welcomed back into the guild on an ooc or ic level. Figure out why people responded like they did, and, from there, decide whether there's something you can change. If you feel like you did everything right and the Tse Gaiyan responded horribly and unfairly, maybe it's not the right guild for you. Nothing wrong with that, either.
There's likely other stuff that went on, that most people aren't privy to regarding that situation. And this is often true for a lot of things that go on, on the MUD. Lysse, for instance, is very tight lipped about information she passes on. A few select people typically, in the past, have earned her trust. So I'd say it's safe to assume that quite frequently, when something happens to your (the generalized you, meaning the pbase) character, whether it comes from a GM or another PC, you probably don't know everything that's gone on and very likely won't know everything that's gone on behind the scenes. And that's kind of neat, because it means that there's some IC level of mystery, and doubt, and it helps to create conflict if we, as a playerbase, can maintain a good level of IC and OOC separation.



More on topic with what Rias posted, however, is my feelings towards PC Stardom. I agree. I think the playerbase needs to realise that the vNPCs and NPCs present in the Lost Lands are probably by large pretty normal, relative to PCs. There's exceptions obviously. Drakolin are pretty crazy and abnormal. There's probably NPC sorcerers and witches and undead things and infested things that are abnormal, relative to PCs.

However, from a Player's point of view while we might be the stars of the Guilds we're in, it can be frustrating when we try to accomplish things that just can't be done without some level of GM intervention, or when it feels like those actions we do are ignored, or have minimal impact. It's very much a two way street, in which the playerbase needs to be aware that we can't just do whatever we want, but we still are the driving force of story in the Lost Lands, and the GMs need to find a way to acknowledge that without having to hold our hands or deploy oodles of NPCs whenever we, as PCs, request it. Having a dedicated Event Staffmember probable helps with that a lot, and it's a two-way street that's going to be difficult to maintain when Staff are (AFAIK) currently stretched thin, so players should probably try to practice patience.
“There is always a choice."
"You mean I could choose certain death?"
"A choice nevertheless, or perhaps an alternative. You see I believe in freedom. Not many people do, although they will of course protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.”

Fayne
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Post by Fayne » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:11 pm

Okay, one last response to clarify things, then I'm done here, because this is off topic and has gone on long enough.

I'm not stomping my foot and saying "That's not fair, it's your fault, undo it." If I had thought what happened was unfair or unjustified, I would have addressed it when it happened, not half a year after the fact. What my actual complaint has been is the fact that my removal came out of nowhere, suddenly, about an issue that was fairly controversial both IC and OOC at the time. Now, is the controversy justification for action being taken against Fayne? Probably. But is it justification to remove me from the guild I was in? Again, maybe, if I had been warned against it or something before. Up until that point, not much had been discussed IC about the issue, and it was Fayne's first offense on this subject. Perhaps there was a better way to handle it besides banishing me from the guild.

Now, all of that aside, I'm also not asking for a redo or retcon or "get-out-of-jail-free card". What I am asking for is a chance to work my character back into a position that would be fun to play again through RP. And yes, I have to ask for that, because generally speaking characters are not admitted back into any guilds, different or the same, after being removed from one, voluntarily or not. In fact, the only time anyone has ever been allowed into a different guild is when they have used someone who is or has been part of a different guild to introduce a new one, at least to the extent of my knowledge.

So basically, tl;dr: I'm asking for options, not a handout.
A scrawny alley cat stares after the dog with big green eyes.
Speaking to a scrawny alley cat, you ask, "Friend of yours?"
A scrawny alley cat hisses angrily.

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Jirato
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Re: Who's the star of your guild?

Post by Jirato » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:20 pm

Fayne, if you want to discuss options, it needs to happen ICly.

Lets not derail this topic any further please. We don't need people coming here and trying to speculate Fayne's situation.
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