how old are you?

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how old are you?

Postby ydia » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:12 pm

Could one of the gms explain the age ranges for the age choices. youthful, mature, adult, prime etc? I think I know but want to be sure.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Kunren » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:48 am

ydia wrote:Could one of the gms explain the age ranges for the age choices. youthful, mature, adult, prime etc? I think I know but want to be sure.

They are purposefully meant to be vague, though the youngest characters are stated to be at least 18 years old (exept for some very rare exceptions where a smaller age was accepted with the condition of penalties skills)
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Noctere » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:53 am

As far as I know, the ages listed are mainly for RP reasons only. They are the words used to describe your age when someone looks at you. The only exception to this is when a character RPs themselves as being super young or super old. We don't normally support those age groups but with a few rare exception we have allowed it with the idea that they will not be as effective in combat and a few other logical restrictions. For example I don't see a 100 year old man heaving tree trunks or a 10 year old child swinging around a claidhmore with ease. Many of these tropes are popular in anime and what-such but we try to cling closer to reality in our world.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby jilliana » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:32 am

I've always found the 'too young' thing interesting. The 'too old' is consistently more controled, in my opinion.

I remember some time back I was RPing with someone who wanted to be a monk and the acolyte asked her how old she was. She said sixteen and the acolyte told her that she was too young and to come back in a couple of years. That player never came back to play.

Then a few months later a monk came around and he admitted to only being sixteen.

I'm not saying that stuff to put the GMs on the spot, but I just found it disconcerting, and still do.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Rias » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:56 pm

I've always assumed the minimum age for player characters was 18. People that persistently insisted their character was super young regardless of that tended to acquire various "young kid" penalties as a result, when I was in charge.

That acolyte story is a new one on me.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby jilliana » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:04 pm

Rias wrote:I've always assumed the minimum age for player characters was 18. People that persistently insisted their character was super young regardless of that tended to acquire various "young kid" penalties as a result, when I was in charge.

That acolyte story is a new one on me.


Is it okay to ask what sorts of things would be "young kid" penalties, or is it mostly dependent on on guild?

That happened some months after Jilliana became templar and really early in the morning if I remember correctly.

It's good to know there is something in place for that.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Jirato » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:13 am

jilliana wrote:I've always found the 'too young' thing interesting. The 'too old' is consistently more controled, in my opinion.

I remember some time back I was RPing with someone who wanted to be a monk and the acolyte asked her how old she was. She said sixteen and the acolyte told her that she was too young and to come back in a couple of years. That player never came back to play.

Then a few months later a monk came around and he admitted to only being sixteen.

I'm not saying that stuff to put the GMs on the spot, but I just found it disconcerting, and still do.


That would have been me, which would explain why Rias doesn't recall it.

I'm sorry that my interactions as an NPC have left such a horrible and lasting impression that has continued for almost two years now. It's one of the reasons why I am frequently hesitant and uncomfortable controlling NPCs and prefer sticking to code and design work.

The acolyte did not outright refuse the character, and explicitly told them they were free to request an interview with Dimmes. The reason why the acolyte even inquired about their age and suggested that they wait a couple years was because the mannerisms and speech they were using indicated far less maturity than a 16 year old, acting more like an 8 year old. Even claiming to be from the orphanage, which was only around, at the time, for about a year.

As for a 16 year old monk coming around a few months later, I've never initiated one who openly claimed that age. Though if they were actually showing maturity and intelligence there would have been no need to question their age, so they may have just slipped in unnoticed. There isn't a hard-set age limit on joining the Church, though I'd expect any members who join to act like adults.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Rias » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:32 am

The reason why the acolyte even inquired about their age and suggested that they wait a couple years was because the mannerisms and speech they were using indicated far less maturity than a 16 year old, acting more like an 8 year old.


I think this is one of the things that really bothers me about people trying to play particularly young characters - they often go a bit too far in their "I'm young" efforts, acting like small children. If they're showing signs of still needing to be looked after by adults, or at best, expressing that they don't need to be looked after as if they have something to prove, they're not mature enough to join any of the various guilds we have implemented as far as I'm concerned. I know that it's a fairly popular theme in youth literature and Anime and such, the whole "kid prodigy who is miraculously stronger, smarter, and more capable than they look/act/seem the majority of the time" thing, but I've never liked that type of thing in non-children's-stories, so I didn't want it in CLOK.

The Monastic Order in particular seeks members of discipline and maturity. I could see young children being some kind of acolytes, perhaps, hoping to be inducted as full-fledged Monks once they're old and mature enough, but that's about it.

And yeah, it's happened more than a few times that we hear fairly late in a character's career "oh by the way, I'm only 13!" News to us.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby artus » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:41 am

I didn't even think it's really clear. At least I always feel comfortable rping Artus off at 15 years old. His backstory was the son of an expert ranger anyway, so no doubt why he joined the gaiyan. Or is there any restriction in Gaiyan now? Well, Artus perhaps missed it.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Jirato » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:11 am

The character creation process now explicitly states that all characters are at a minimum 18 years old.
[GMCHAT Uyoku]: Octum is when the octumbunny comes around and lays pumpkins everywhere right?
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Jirato » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:46 am

I was working on this when a co-worker came over, looked over my shoulder, and asked what I was working on. When I explained it, he didn't really understand until I started talking more about CLOK. He's mostly used to games like World of Warcraft, and his idea of "Roleplay-Enforced" is the RP servers in WoW, which are a bit of a joke.

Finally, he said, "Oh, so you actually do require constant roleplaying? Well if they want to roleplay little kids, why not just let them?

The issue, I told him, was the mechanical accommodations that would need to be added. Skill point and ability caps, restrictions on joining the majority of the guilds out there, the inability to wield the majority of weapons out there, or don the majority of the armor available.

"Well, If that's how they want to roleplay, why not?"

The problem is the open-ness of CLOK. You don't need to submit a detailed character profile before you create your character. You don't even need GM interaction to join the majority of the guilds out there. What's to stop someone from grinding up hundreds of skills, donning full plate, wielding a greatsword, becoming a rank 35 mercenary, and then saying, "Oh, by the way, I'm only 15!"

While it hasn't been as extreme as the above, these kind of things do happen from time to time, and it bothers us. Had we known ahead of time, he likely wouldn't have ever been able to join the Coalition, his skills would probably capped at about 100 or 150 each, and he wouldn't have been able to use much more than a shortsword and leather armor. I'm sorry, but this isn't an anime universe.
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[GMCHAT Rias]: Dimmes says "oh hai :) u need healz? ill get u dont worry thaum lasers pew pew pew lol"
[CHAT - GameMaster Rias would totally nuke Rooks]: Here's how elemancy works: The freeblegreeble and the zippoflasm have to be combined with the correct ration of himbleplimp, then you add the gargenheimer and adjust the froopulon for the pattern you want, apply some tarratarrtarr, yibble the wantaban, and let 'er rip!

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Re: how old are you?

Postby artus » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:57 am

would have been like that at first. otherwise i wouldn't have brought artus to this game. I even modded his story slightly because of that, heh. Ah well, think I can always change it. it's not too late, and artus is not well known now anyway. But man there should be some more detailed info about age upon creation, and more about rp
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Jaster » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:55 pm

One of my characters hasn't even been born yet.

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Re: how old are you?

Postby ydia » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:21 pm

I've seen games where you can be younger, and I don't get why personally, and I agree with Jirato so much coding to go in to it. It also makes no sense for a child to be in a guild. If there were teenagers in the game, such as Artus for example, he should be an apprentice, being promoted and accepted into the guild when eighteen hits.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Kunren » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:04 pm

ydia wrote:I've seen games where you can be younger, and I don't get why personally, and I agree with Jirato so much coding to go in to it. It also makes no sense for a child to be in a guild. If there were teenagers in the game, such as Artus for example, he should be an apprentice, being promoted and accepted into the guild when eighteen hits.

Interesting thought. I could certainly see some guilds having "youth groups" that are basically apprenticeship programs that people who really want to rp as young characters could join. Could even go into an actual apprentice/master relationship with a normal guild member. That opens up problems of its own though, especially as I'm not sure if actual aging is even a coded thing or how it would relate to our own timeframe. Many games where aging can eventually be an actual issue have 1 irl day equal one month off the characters life, or similar, but in clok the days are pretty much synced to irl days I think.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby artus » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:15 pm

Argh man, imagine if I rp Artus at 15 that way! I don't wanna wait for 3 years and finally get promoted! It's too ooc loooooong!
Fine, I'm gonna start off at Artus' real age just like my fictional Artus is then. Let's make a submittion for Artus's story once again!
*Clok gms probably didn't see my previous submittion anyway*
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Fayne » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:03 pm

I don't understand why 18 has to be the age of adulthood for CLOK. Depending on what time period you look at, adulthood began as early as 13 IRL, whereupon the "child" was expected to work, earn a wage, or even marry. Granted, this was many hundreds of years ago, but given CLOK's level of technology, and the hardships of everyday life, I'd fully expect the age of adulthood to be 15 or 16. Could the young adults still have room to mature or grow? Certainly, even today not all people have fully "grown-up" by the age of 18. But I would think life is hard enough in the Lost Lands that you be expected to fully earn your own way by the age of 16, and possibly set out to start your own life if you aren't taking over the family estate.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Kunren » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:41 am

Fayne wrote:I don't understand why 18 has to be the age of adulthood for CLOK. Depending on what time period you look at, adulthood began as early as 13 IRL, whereupon the "child" was expected to work, earn a wage, or even marry. Granted, this was many hundreds of years ago, but given CLOK's level of technology, and the hardships of everyday life, I'd fully expect the age of adulthood to be 15 or 16. Could the young adults still have room to mature or grow? Certainly, even today not all people have fully "grown-up" by the age of 18. But I would think life is hard enough in the Lost Lands that you be expected to fully earn your own way by the age of 16, and possibly set out to start your own life if you aren't taking over the family estate.

Even if the mental age is much higher than compared ages for irl people today, their physical abilities at that age are going to be very different. Once you hit 18, you can still grow of course, but it's not nearly as noticeable as the differences between a 15 and 18 year old.
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Re: how old are you?

Postby Rias » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:38 am

Official 'Events and Lore GM' statement: "In the CLOK world, 18 is the age at which humans have finished the majority of their body's strengthening and maturing, and is thus the age of adulthood."

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Could someone be thrust into adult responsibilities early, in their early teens or even earlier? Sure. Would that somehow accelerate the rate of their body's physical development/maturing? Nope.
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