I've actually had to train myself to not ride past highwaymen when I see them but engage, overriding my previous concerns about kill-stealing inherited from other games, because I think the sentiment of "not my task, not my problem" is terribly OOC.xavier wrote:Elystole wasn't being attacked by those highwaymen when I was standing in the room. He saw them and went on the offensive . I know because I was standing in the same room and I wasn't being attacked either, until I attacked them. I think this particular "we'll only be aggressive to the guy sent out to deal with us was implemented because of newbies walking along the road and getting taken out by the stray arrow during a task, not sure.
Yes. Yes, it does.xavier wrote:Templars drive off the foe and give them an opportunity to change, yes this isn't always successful and could potentially result in the same foe turning around and doing his evil again. On the other hand, a vigilante walking into the room and outright slaughtering said criminal really makes the vigilante not much better than the criminal. Does the fact that you only outright murder bad guys make you a good guy?
People seem to be really casual about the idea of the highwaymen or whoever else going off and repeating their crimes. If a highwayman escapes, more innocent people die. It's that simple. How does that weigh on your conscience? I want to know how Templar feel when some grieving widow comes up to them and asks why they didn't stop their husband's murderer when they had the chance. "Oh, the Church teaches that people deserve a second chance - even if those people have murdered in the past and are trying to murder you now."
I find it kind of funny that Templar used to be upset when highwaymen escaped. I imagine there was a reason for that. Did everyone just forget what it was now that their fancy powers will get dinged?
This isn't about Templar being judges. When someone is actively trying to kill you, there isn't a lot of confusion there as to their guilt. They're murderers. It's highly doubtful that it is their first time killing, and it is highly doubtful that it will be their last. And even if it was that first and last time, just the fact that their reaction to "a Templar is coming to discourage us from preying on the innocent" is to try and kill that Templar says a lot about their character. Namely that if any of those poor travelers have tried to defend themselves that they're lying in a ditch somewhere.preiman wrote:I really do feel that under no circumstance should the church take on the role of judge. if they bring someone in, and someone else judges them that is a very different thing. however if they are allowed to just say on the road that this person deserves death, then they become something terrible. it's like a cop, if they must kill someone in the line of duty to protect themselves or others then that is regrettable, but if they just say this person is worthless and takes the shot when they don't have to that is monsterous. it is sometimes a thin line, but if you can't walk it, or can't be bothered you shouldn't be doing the job.
Except we do know what they are thinking. They are thinking, "How dare this Templar try to stop us? Let's kill this shmuck and get back to robbing people." I'm not saying that simply driving them off is hard. I'm saying that it's profoundly unwise and that it makes the Templar look like a bunch of naive idealists who value their Inner Light over people's safety.Lae wrote:My problem with the way that you're thinking is that you're pretty much saying "well this is what they're thinking, so it's okay if I teach them a lesson or kill them". You don't know what they're thinking or if you've seen them before or will again on a road
All that does is delay the inevitable. You haven't actually solved anything. They run off, lick their wounds, and get a little bit smarter about picking their targets next time.Lae wrote:You want to help people? You're helping them by driving off the threat.
A quick lesson in what I affectionately refer to as "body count math":
1 captured highwayman = 0 deaths (assuming they don't just get hanged by the town). Huzzah.
1 dead highwayman = 1 death. This is regrettable because any loss of life is regrettable, but if anyone has to die I vote for the guy who goes around preying on the innocent.
1 fleeing highwayman = 1 + n deaths where n is the number of innocent people that highwayman kills before they finally come across someone who puts them in the ground. This is worse.
If highwaymen start surrendering when they get smacked around enough, cool. Great. Bring them in. But then I hope the task switches to "Capture them if you can. Kill them if you must. Do not let them escape." Because "driving them off" just so that they can go right back to doing what they were doing because the Inner Light gets upset if you kill them sounds a whole lot like this:
And it took me a while to realize it, but that is why this change really bugs me. When the Church's leaders are telling their members to let murderers escape rather than risk dimming their Inner Light it means that the Church now values the Inner Light over innocent people's lives. It's taken the premier group of Good Guys in the Lost Lands and turned them into hypocrites. And that sucks.Rias wrote:Mm. Sorry, people - I'd fight to keep you safe from these highwaymen, but there's a chance I might have to deal with some side-effects. Maybe a mercenary will come help instead, if you offer a good enough reward. Good luck.