Infirmary Healing

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Postby hadesfire » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:13 pm

As a Merc who tries to play constantly, I take healing where I can get it, but my character isn't one for running around with bandages. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally for me to spend time gathering the 100 herbs needed to get 20-12 bandages ( I do have a character who does this because it makes sense for him) only for it to last me one 10 minute round of training.
The infirmary makes a lot more sense and I love the new system, the only problem is the cost, most players see me running around with moderate bruises because I don't bother to heal every single wound (I run into Monks and Templars, sometimes), the new system gives me the ability to get healed quickly while I check arrows, food, etc. Due to my fighting style, I often come back bleeding in 2 or 3 places, the old system allowed me to get right back out with no cost and 230 RT. Now I get out 10 minutes later (bandages healing time) with 200-300 riln cost.

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Postby Nootau » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:19 pm

@hadesfire
I have to ask, in your time of 'training' to gain 300riln worth of wounds, how much riln have you collected from the slain humanoids and how much gear have you taken from their bodies and brought back to the pawnshop to sell?
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Postby Kiyaani » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:04 pm

I think that makes the assumption he's killing humanoids that drop items, have armor or carry riln - that he has the bagspace or time to strip the slain. Many of the areas I go to I fight animals and the meat/skins don't sell for that much riln.

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Postby Hadya » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:15 pm

I'm just going to add my two cents. When I'm playing Hadya, I hardly ever make 200 riln in a training session. With the farming change, it's pretty difficult to save up for a house. I think the change makes sense and it's not unreasonable, but with a very small player base it makes things difficult. My free hours are late at night when most healers aren't on. Maybe this is a change that needs to happen once there are more healing characters available.

Good roleplay is the reason I play games like Clok, and I don't need to be forced into it by game mechanics. During weekdays I have 10-20 minute windows of time where I can squeeze in a few tasks or forage a bit, but I have to save the roleplaying for times when I'm not distracted by real life things. This new change has made it more difficult to sign in for a few minutes here and there. I also think that less people have been signing on overall since the change. I could be wrong about that, I only know I haven't been able to get my husband to play much lately.

I'm glad all this discussion is taking place; I always hesitated to ask for healing because I didn't want to bother anyone. When I was a new player it was a few weeks before I met someone who was a healer, and still longer before I was told I could ask them for healing at any time. Maybe church members could be encouraged to mentor new players (with in game tasks) so they know who they can ask for healing. I don't know how that would work for the outpost, or if it would work at all anywhere. Maybe there should be a message board in the infirmary where active monks could post their names and what towns they are in?

I really like being able to get up and walk around while the bandages are working. In conclusion, I will ask for thaumaturgic healing because I know people aren't irritated by it, not because of the infirmary change.
Last edited by Hadya on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Eraene » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:30 pm

My characters don't ask for healing because they really don't know too many people. Neither of them are the sort to ask complete strangers for assistance with much more than maybe directions to a place. I imagine they'll run into enough people and get to know them, eventually, to a point where they're willing to ask for things. But I don't jump directly into character interaction and force RP to happen, for the most part, especially when I'm getting used to a new MUD, so a lot of it is simply me as a player, getting used to the game before I start depending entirely on others for certain things.

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Postby Nootau » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:00 pm

@Kiyaani
If he is hunting animals, even wolves and bears their pelts sell for, at least for me, between 20 and 50 riln, each. Their meat also sells but it varies between 1 and 5 riln per piece. If he is in an area that doesn't have time for him to reap the rewards of murdering something, then he would try to find fins a different area within the same zone. If the issue is bag-space that is something else that will become better with practice.

@Hadya
Where are you currently training? Maybe I could offer some tips to make the runs more profitable.

@Eraene
The Order's Monk's job is to tend to the wounded, they are basically magical doctors who only get a promotion if they tend to the wounded. This is something known ICly, would this kind of information have your characters feel better about asking, 'Is there a doctor available' on the ESP channel when wounded?
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Postby Eraene » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:44 pm

[quote=Nootau]
@Eraene
The Order's Monk's job is to tend to the wounded, they are basically magical doctors who only get a promotion if they tend to the wounded. This is something known ICly, would this kind of information have your characters feel better about asking, 'Is there a doctor available' on the ESP channel when wounded?[/quote]

Possibly, but not likely. There's still the matter of asking complete strangers to tend to possibly grievous wounds outside the familiar environment of an infirmary.

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Postby Lae » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:01 pm

[quote=Hadya] Maybe this is a change that needs to happen once there are more healing characters available.[/quote]


This is where the problem is. Being a monk is a pretty thankless job and one that most new players won't undertake. Almost every new monk recently seems to have been an alt so that means they don't play frequently.

Monks are not entitled to peoples wounds, not by any stretch of the imagination, but being a monk is pretty lame when you have all these abilities to help people and use them mostly to help NPC's who won't ever interact with you.

Just sayin'.
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Postby Hadya » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:18 pm

@Nootau: I mostly train in Taureka or the Deadwood forest right now. I can make riln just running guild tasks, but that doesn't raise my skills. So I'm still saving, as long as I don't stop and work on dodging/elemancy skills.

@Lae: I didn't mean to dimish the concerns that prompted this change. I'm very glad this is being discussed, I would have made my first character a monk if it had seemed like there was anyone around to heal! Instead I have Hadya, who is definitely not the healing type! I hope the DEVs find a happy medium here. I hate to see people turned away from a game with such potential.

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Postby hadesfire » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:27 pm

When I hunt I do my task, usually in dusklamp tunnels, I have to find the bloated guys and kill them. One thing to understand is that I constantly move to higher zones for my guild tasks, sure I could go someplace easier but that would be against my character's personality of wanting new challanges and stuff like that, he runs into combat with any old armor/weapon that he has and is constantly on the attack so he wouldn't think "gee, I seem to be poor and hurt and need riln badly, I should tone it down." he would think "hrmm, i'm bleeding, broke, against three enemies and the infirmary is 20 minutes away, I feel bad for those enemies."

For the equipment, my tasks are about 200 riln, I get one or two cleavers, that just about covers my healing expenses and food, I have 0 riln for anything else. I used to hunt and sell that stuff but I wasn't getting enough food and riln to offset my expenses so i'm training to get good at that. Before somebody was nice enough to put those emergency food boxes out (thanks for that) I had to steal food at times and disregard healing at others.

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Postby Kiyaani » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:52 pm

Kudos to whoever increased the riln from dangerous critter tasks. This will definitely help offset costs a bit better.

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Postby Rithiel » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:56 pm

I do occasionally listen to you guys.
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Postby Avedri » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:24 am

I'd play a monk more and in truth I really enjoyed my monk. I saw a lot of player interaction and even got opportunities to travel with hunting parties to heal. However, I don't want to again feel like I'm being forced to change characters because game mechanics made my current character feel like it was a chore to login and do things.

I have yet to test out the riln changes so I do appreciate that being taking into consideration.
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Postby Blitz » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:30 am

TL;DR: Healing is a huge financial burden and I wonder if this is intended to be the case.

The wordy version:

Being a guildless, skill-less, complete newbie, I've only just started experiencing the burden that is Paying for Medical Treatment.

I started out by trying my hand at skinning/leatherworking, foraging herbs, and logging, and thus far have found logging to be a reasonable source of income if I saw up logs into flitches before selling them. Halfway through felling my first tree, I reached the magical milestone of 35 skill points and had to start paying for bandages. Soon after, I experienced my first death at the hands of a termite (whose head I've now mounted on a board, which will be the first piece of furniture in my future home).

Starting with a wood-free market, an oak which yields 4 logs (thus 16 flitches) fetches me about 260 riln. Having my wounds tended in an infirmary after fighting a termite easily costs me half that amount. If 2 termites appear while I'm chopping off the branches, my net profit approaches (or if I have particularly bad luck even drops below) 0. Given the amount of time it takes to process a tree, from felling to selling, that's a bit of a bummer. The issue is compounded further by the rent of a handcart (though 20 riln is by all means a fair price), the purchase of a logging axe (a one-time investment of 150 riln doesn't sound like much, but it adds up to all the other expenses of a newbie), and the diminished returns as the market's demand for flitches is saturated.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not complaining here. I get to practice combat (a little), I get to practice logging, and I more or less break even at the end of the day. Besides all that, I like a challenge, so the harder the going gets, the better. I just wanted to provide a newbie's perspective on this, because the portion of my limited income which is consumed by medical bills is immense, and I'm not sure if that's intended.

(Note that I might have been able to avoid this if I had 1) found out about other methods of healing and 2) had access to one, or maybe this wouldn't even be an issue if I'd spent my first 35 skillpoints on combat-related skills... This again makes me question, however, if the game was designed to be 'solved' that way, and whether or not I didn't take the 'right' solution because I'm an idiot, or because it's never obvious to unleet n00bs.)

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Postby Eraene » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:51 am

I imagine a lot of the response you'll get to this issue is to seek out Church healing ICly. Some people, like myself, play characters who aren't so keen on running to someone else every time they have booboos to be tended, you may or may not be one of them, but a little heads up, either way.

As a secondary note, herbalism and first aid are excellent skills to practice in.
Last edited by Eraene on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Rias » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:40 am

Appreciate the feedback, Blitz. Infirmary prices is still a hot topic we discuss.

[quote=Eraene]I imagine a lot of the response you'll get to this issue is to seek out Church healing ICly. Some people, like myself, play characters who aren't so keen on running to someone else every time they have booboos to be tended, you may or may not be one of them, but a little heads up, either way.[/quote]

As unpopular as it may be, it's been the design intent from the conceptualization of this game that characters will have an easier and more convenient time if they're willing to go to others for help for some things. It's certainly possible to play the completely self-sufficient lone wolf who never asks anyone else for anything (ask Skjotur or Lysse), but it's going to be harder and much less convenient, and you'll miss out on some things that only certain people can do (nobody can do everything in the game on their own).

Keep in mind I consider it getting help from others if you ask NPCs for things, such as NPC herbalists, locksmiths, trainers, guildmasters, etc. They're other people just like Player Characters are.
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Postby Blitz » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:04 am

[quote=Rias]As unpopular as it may be, it's been the design intent from the conceptualization of this game that characters will have an easier and more convenient time if they're willing to go to others for help for some things.

...

Keep in mind I consider it getting help from others if you ask NPCs for things, such as NPC herbalists, locksmiths, trainers, guildmasters, etc. They're other people just like Player Characters are.[/quote]

In that case, I feel perhaps (especially for the guildless n00bs) the price of bandages are a bit over the top. I am asking others for help, but by no means have an easy or convenient time as far as income is concerned.

[img=Medical bills...]http://i.imgflip.com/qwt9.jpg[/img]

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Postby Rias » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:52 pm

Looks like the person you're going to is asking for money to compensate their service. That can happen. Maybe you should ask around more and see if anyone else is willing to give you a better deal!
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Re: Infirmary Healing

Postby Kiyaani » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:33 am

Recently I've noticed that asking for 'healall' will give you a much steeper price than asking for 'heal' repeatedly. Is this intended?

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Re: Infirmary Healing

Postby Rias » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:59 pm

That would be a bug.

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Re: Infirmary Healing

Postby Rithiel » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:33 pm

I looked, and the only thing I could find was that eyes were being charged incorrectly. I fixed that, so if it occurs again, please bug it, being as detailed as possible.

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Re: Infirmary Healing

Postby Kiyaani » Wed May 08, 2013 12:08 pm

Are heal-times for wounds still being looked into at all? Currently a severe wound tended by the infirmary takes longer to heal than it takes to idle-out of the game. This seems a bit excessive to me. I'm not sure if that's intended to be incentive to get player-made poultices or just how it's currently designed. Since the only healers logging in lately have been Lae and my own alt, the current functionality makes training a bit inhibited if the target you're fighting gets in a lucky shot.

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Re: Infirmary Healing

Postby Rithiel » Wed May 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Haven't touched it in a while because it seemed fine (meaning nobody was talking about it). I don't mind putting in some faster healing, but we'll probably make it cost more. Would people want the capability to buy even faster healing at an additional cost?

Additionally, you shouldn't have to wait for your wound to completely heal before going out again; a lot of people run around with light wounds.

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Re: Infirmary Healing

Postby Acarin » Wed May 08, 2013 2:14 pm

Yes. Faster wounds would be GREAT even if at an added cost.

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Re: Infirmary Healing

Postby Kiyaani » Wed May 08, 2013 2:16 pm

I normally go back in once I get down to moderate or light, but it's still a really long time for healing. I'd pay a bit extra to get my injuries healed faster if there are no alternative means available.

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