OOC-Free Weekend

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OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Jirato » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:23 am

We're going to try a little experiment, starting today, by disabling the OOC and CHAT commands. We hope everyone will take this time to enjoy the game while being in-character and RPing with others. The GM team will be looking for people to hand out RPAs to this weekend as well.

New players may ask questions via the QUESTION command as explained in the tutorial. Existing players who decide they do not want to see questions may disable it by toggling option 16.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Karasi » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:31 am

Thank God!!!

I'm so glad this is being done! I think it will encourage character emmersion. This can only be a good thing.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Lufin » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:16 pm

They also reminded us to use the NOMINATE verb on people you think deserve a roleplay award.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Gad » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:05 pm

Great effort but this is like trying to make someone fall in love. You can't force RP. People have to have a desire to do so. Perhaps have an event to help RP and see how it goes while OOC is turned off.

OOC has options to be turned off so taking away player choices shouldn't be a path to go to.

To make this more interesting you should post the difference in increase/decrease of player TELLS. Shoot...I would wager 100k riln that it has gone up during this time.

The TUTOR command is great if some of you do not know it. It is an excellent way to RP but be mindful that it is under supervision and do not abuse it since I find it a great tool to learn skill and RP at the same time so I would like for it to continue.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Gruff » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:40 am

Tutor is great! Gad and Dactor spent some time with my brother last night and he would shut up about it. I would love to know the actual benefits of it since we had some newer players coming in recently.

I'm still feelin out the lack of an OOC channel. I think both sides have great points but I also think that restriction of freedom is a tough road to tread.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Rithiel » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:26 am

Gad wrote:Great effort but this is like trying to make someone fall in love. You can't force RP. People have to have a desire to do so. Perhaps have an event to help RP and see how it goes while OOC is turned off.


We've done that. And actually, considering we claim to enforce RP, we can force players to RP. If players don't have a desire to RP, then perhaps a game that encourages and enforces RP isn't the best place for them

Gad wrote:OOC has options to be turned off so taking away player choices shouldn't be a path to go to.

To make this more interesting you should post the difference in increase/decrease of player TELLS. Shoot...I would wager 100k riln that it has gone up during this time.


It's not clear to me why an increase in tells would be unexpected or a bad thing. When we were discussing this, I made sure that tells weren't disabled. I think OOC conversation is great. I love the idea that players become friends through the game, and have conversations about completely things completely unrelated to the game, or things completely related to the game.

But now, these conversations are a private transaction. They do not cause negative externalities on all the other people playing the game. And yes, players could turn OOC off, but if most of the players are turning it off because a few are making asinine or offensive comments, why should we enable that minitory?

If you want to get a group together and make a room in IRC or Skype or whatever, more power to you. In fact, people have done that in the past, even with OOC. But it doesn't have to be the default of the game. When we had a small player base, OOC was fine. But now as we hit 15 people somewhat frequently, the actions of one individual can ruin it for everybody. When we have many players who are forced to turn off OOC or even log out because of one game 'feature', it's time to do something.

It may return. It may return substantially changed. We may never have an OOC chat again. But considering that most of the feedback we've gotten is positive and that in game communication has increased substantially, it seems like we're on the right track.
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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby xavier » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:06 am

i am just throwing my two cents in. I dislike having global ooc channels in an rp enforced game. a newbie/question channel is perfectly fine, but here recently the ooc channel has become a let's chat about stuff and while I use it too sometimes and have gotten carried away mostly I just answer questions which is what I was told when I created it was supposed to be used for. So yes I am loving not hearing fifty ooc messages roll across my screen every five minutes about inane chatter which is only slightly related to the game or not related at all. if it's up for vote I'd say keep it to a question command rather than an actual ooc channel or however you have it set up now. I didn't like to turn it off before no matter what for the simple fact that I'm big on helping newbies and if it's off in the options you don't hear their questions.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby TwistedAkai » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:22 am

I've had more RP with it off (only two days with, two days without to compare, here). But, at the same time the world seems much less inhabited without OOC. Especially when I go out to disappear into a forest for a few hours, where all I have to remind me I'm not the only player is WHO and the occasional ESP. I love more than anything to be able to chat with an entire community outside of forums, and I hope OOC can return better than ever.

If not though, I would like to at least see the question channel opened up to non-newbies. I usually START thinking of questions right around the end of the 'newbie period' regardless of where I go, and in just the few days I saw OOC, I saw oldbies asking the occasional question too. If we have to lose OOC, I vote we open question to everyone, and have an answer channel for responses. I'm thinking we could keep question green, and make answer bright green so the answers aren't easily missed, and everyone can learn from one person's question, as well as seen that it has been answered.
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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Lysse » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:04 pm

I'm going to try to be on a bit this weekend, and potentially in the Mentor Lounge a bit. So if anyone is online and sees me on with a (Mentor) and (Onduty) tags after my name, it means that the Mentor Lounge will be open for people that might have questions or want instruction, but might be a bit over the Newbie grace period.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Makkah » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:25 pm

I am a wholehearted non-supporter of this idea. I understand changes must be made; in fact, I took Kiyaani's post absolutely to heart. However, I've played the game quite a while now and I find myself bored while in-game often. I used to love the grind, but my interest is dwindling. Chatting with people is about all I've done in the past two weeks or so, other than that interesting Gunther storyline (which was awesome, btw). I can understand enforcing RP, but forcing people to interact IC as the only means of communication is a bit much. I hope both CHAT and OOC return, even if some adjustments are made.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Nootau » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:37 pm

For those who desire OOC talks, why not use the IRC as Rithiel suggested??

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Makkah » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:41 pm

Not a fan of third party chat software for personal reasons, and honestly it's just frustrating having a feature possibly taken out.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Nootau » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:58 pm

Partly to be expected, this is an alpha mud where everything is optional to change fundamentally or directly removed in short order by the DEVs.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Acarin » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:05 pm

I have to agree with Makkah on this. OOC and chat were nice features. I miss them already and find myself getting bored a lot quicker. Even if people get annoyed with them sometimes, they still promote community in CLOK. Without them, it's a lot of time with no human interactions...

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Zoiya » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:09 pm

We've seen more interaction, RP, and use of ESP since we've turned off ooc. We've doubled the amount of RP awards that we've handed out in a month in under 12 hours.

I would hope that players would give the entire weekend a fair chance, playing in game and in character before you state your aversion to this project.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Acarin » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:57 pm

Zoiya wrote:We've seen more interaction, RP, and use of ESP since we've turned off ooc. We've doubled the amount of RP awards that we've handed out in a month in under 12 hours.

I would hope that players would give the entire weekend a fair chance, playing in game and in character before you state your aversion to this project.


Sorry Zoiya, but I really don't understand this sort of statement. If the opinion is positive and in agreement with the proposed change, then it's alright to form it without doing this, correct (as other people have said it's a great thing)? Why is it unfair of me to have an aversion towards the removal of things I have gained the most enjoyment out of while playing? I'm equally against changes when anything else is removed that I've enjoyed throughout my time in the game, but it doesn't and shouldn't take me giving it a chance for several days to form an opinion. At the very best, I think I would shift towards grudging acceptance over time as I have for most other changes that I've strongly disagreed with.

Just speaking for myself here, obviously.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby TwistedAkai » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:05 pm

Thinking more on it, if OOC comes back, I very much want to see aliases so we're not all using our character names. That little bit of encouraged anon might help reduce risk of meta some. If it doesn't, maybe a local OOC for corrections and other things that may need to be communicated to people in the room like if you're stepping AFK for a minute, or if someone RPs something too unnecessarily graphic for you.
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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Zoiya » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:22 pm

Acarin wrote:
Zoiya wrote:We've seen more interaction, RP, and use of ESP since we've turned off ooc. We've doubled the amount of RP awards that we've handed out in a month in under 12 hours.

I would hope that players would give the entire weekend a fair chance, playing in game and in character before you state your aversion to this project.


Sorry Zoiya, but I really don't understand this sort of statement. If the opinion is positive and in agreement with the proposed change, then it's alright to form it without doing this, correct (as other people have said it's a great thing)? Why is it unfair of me to have an aversion towards the removal of things I have gained the most enjoyment out of while playing? I'm equally against changes when anything else is removed that I've enjoyed throughout my time in the game, but it doesn't and shouldn't take me giving it a chance for several days to form an opinion. At the very best, I think I would shift towards grudging acceptance over time as I have for most other changes that I've strongly disagreed with.

Just speaking for myself here, obviously.


I hope that *EVERYONE* will give the weekend a chance. We've had several people discuss the merits and the reasons why they don't like it. We are taking everything that you guys are saying into account and we're going to adjust the way we use ooc in the future based on your feedback. If I need to comment to the people who said that this is great that they should wait until the weekend is over, consider it done here. I don't expect that peoples original opinion will change, but I hope they would give it a chance to.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby xavier » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:26 am

I may have been a bit vague in my previous post as to my opinion so here's my clarification since it even seemed a bit vague to me.
1. ooc is not a chat channel and that's exactly what it's been used for , a lot. When someone mentions taking a conversation to chat they almost always, so I've seen, get told "it's game related" and the conversation continues. I don't have a problem with the chat channel as it is solely not game related ooc chat and I can turn it off without worrying about helping out someone who needs help legitimately with something they don't get. This is why I suggested the modification about question.
2. On the topic of "game related" conversations on ooc. I've seen people claim game related about stuff like what their character is doing in game, where places are and their difficulty level, what color to paint arrows, where to forage herbs (specific info), chat about IG accomplishments (like making your first set of nails of which I'm guilty as well) and other such things in the same vein. This isn't to say these things aren't a decent topic of conversation between players, I just think it would be better suited if these conversations weren't around where people who keep ooc onwere forced to choose between listening to them and not being helpful to people with questions.
3. all I have to say to those people who have become bored because OOC and CHAT are turned off is you aren't here for the game then it seems which is a shame.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Zoiya » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:46 am

xavier wrote:3. all I have to say to those people who have become bored because OOC and CHAT are turned off is you aren't here for the game then it seems which is a shame.



I actually get where the people who DO NOT like this is coming from. We came from a time when there was five of us, at best, online and we would all be together arguing, fighting, RPing, and doing whatever and ooc was used as a medium between all that was going on. We all became friends (to a point) and used the ooc channel to catch up when we would log in. When there was a smaller player base, the OOC channel worked, and we didn't have TOO many problems with it. There are still ooc options that people can take to chat or BS with the friends that they've made in CLOK, and I hope that people will take advantage of them. I know that I have and will continue to do so.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby faylen » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:03 am

I wanted to stay out of this conversation overall until I saw how things went for a couple of days. Yes, I know, the weekend isn't over yet, but a lot of my thoughts are general, not just about this weekend.

In my opinion, ooc channels in an RP enforced game gets very complicated. On one hand, I've seen a ton of OOC/IC crossover, and it can be very frustrating and disruptive to the RP environment. Certainly there are gray areas, such as things that should probably be common knowledge but the player behind the character doesn't know. Overall though, there should always be a clear separation between what the player is saying or asking, and what the character wants and needs to know, and that should be reflected in channel usage. What I've seen is a lack of that separation as a whole, and in that way I've been very glad for the few days where players have to take things IC that they may not otherwise. It's been a lot of fun so far

The other aspect, however, is community, and I think that the loss of ooc/chat permanently would have a negative affect on that sense of community. I know that I have had several questions come up, minor things, that I would have asked over ooc but can't. Other times, like now, I'm sitting here weeding away and I can't really do much else while that's going on. Normally I'd be chatting with people or at the very least, listening to others chatter, but I can't even do that. This game is wonderful, but it's also very grindy... Understandably so but it can be very boring to have to sit for 15 minutes and pretty much just let things scroll by. I know others have said that you can chat with people using third party software, but I'm of the strong opinion that it shouldn't be necessary to have a browser, some other chat program, and your mud client open just to get the full advantage of the game. And what about people on phones or in other situations who can't? I really would like to see as much incorporated in the game itself as possible.

Finally, there's the aspect of newbies, and even non-newbies, and questions. There's the question channel now which is nice, but it doesn't help those not super new who have questions. Also, I've seen people ask questions and hesitated to answer because what if five of us send tells to the same person? That could get overwhelming. And finally, I think that it's great to be able to publicly welcome newcomers to the game. On a side note, I'd love to see a different message when someone logs in for the first time as opposed to returning, but that's another subject. In any case, when we lose the ooc channels, we lose that ability to welcome people unless, again, we take the chance of sending someone five tells at once.

So having said all of that, I'd like to offer some suggestions for thought.

1. rename ooc to question, and make it clear that this channel is specifically for game related, ooc questions and perhaps also for greeting newbies assuming we got a message to indicate when a newbie logged in. This would allow those of us who like to ask/answer questions and just generally be helpful to do so without also having to read chat if we don't want to. Of course, this would require some active enforcement to assure people followed the purpose of the channel.

2. I do think that occasional times like this ooc free weekend could be good for the game. Not permanently, but perhaps once a month have a few day stretch like we have now to help keep things on track. I'd also like to see ooc channels turned off during game wide events so that we don't get people asking over ooc channels about IC event things.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Skjotur » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:02 pm

I like it so far. I don't think we need to get rid of OOC permanently but it does need to be enforced if we're going to keep it. It keeps getting used for stuff that I thought should be on CHAT. I think it needs a more clarified role. Like say OOC isn't just for anything game related, because we can say anything's game related. Oh I love these cheetos. It's game related because I got killed by an infested sentry while eating them since I couldn't type because my hands were cheesy. Anyway who likes the flaming kind?

So say OOC is strictly for questions and answers regarding the game mechanics or for finding out things your player should know that is common knowledge. Not ANYTHING game related, people will chatter and argue and babble on it constantlyabout stuff that is only remotely related to the game. Use chat for that stuff instead. Or let people continue the idle prattle on OOC and grumpy old hermits like me can disable it and just listen to the question channel which will hopefully be moderated and kept only to that one purpose.

I like to be social sometimes. But sometimes I want to lose myself in the game and not hear about every piece of loot or every bad roll someone gets or hey that jerk Jaster stole from me again, but I still want to be able to help or listen in on technical questions that are about the game. I think that if I'm feeling like being just idle chatty social OOC I should turn on CHAT. I thought that was what it was for.

I agree with Faylen that we should turn it off during events. If you want to know what's going on in the world ask on ESP. If you say your character wouldn't be involved but the player wants to know, ask afterward when they turn OOC back on or post on the boards.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Drayla » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:49 pm

I'm gonna be quite honest here. When OOC was disabled, I was stunned. I didn't know what to think, but I knew for sure I didn't like that it was suddenly gone. Half of my game experience was OOC chat. But I decided to give it shot; it was only for the weekend after all. Now, after four full days of not having OOC, I can honestly say I am dreading it coming back
I can see why people don't like it, and trust me, I've had issues with it being gone, but I enjoy the game so much better now. Conversation happens through tells, making it more personal and more enjoyable. The only way I would like to see OOC back is opening up QUESTION to everyone, since the newbie status doesn't last nearly long enough to get all of your questions answered. Other than that, I want OOC gone, which I never thought I would say before this weekend.

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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby Rithiel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:18 pm

For now, this is what we decided (this is subject to change tomorrow, next year, or other time we think it's getting out of hand again):

Question is now open to all players, and can be used to ask and answer questions. It is not to be used to discuss anything remotely related to RP.

Chat has been enabled, but turned off for new players by default. This, however, is not an invitation to use it to discuss things that should be discussed in character, nor is it an 'anything goes' channel as some people have previously thought. Players are greatly encouraged and reminded to make use of [b]karma[/]b and to police chat themselves. It takes more than one karma minus to temporarily ban that person from chat.

Expect that chat (and even potentially tells) will be disabled during events and sporadically to remind people that it is a privileged and should not be used to convey inappropriate OOC knowledge.
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Re: OOC-Free Weekend

Postby TwistedAkai » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:20 pm

DA MUD wrote:You can use the ooc command to chat OOC (out-of-character) with all connected users (ooc Hello, everyone!).
Use the tell command to send a message to a specific person (tell fredegar You owe me 20 riln).


Probably bordering on off-topic, but this message is displayed at login. Maybe consider changing it to mention Question instead of OOC? And to mention that tell is OOC?

I'm happy for the return of chat and like it defaulting to off, making it a very opt-in thing. As well, I hope we never lose question as a generally public feature.
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