Option 25 (RPHardcore)

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Jirato
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Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Jirato » Sat May 17, 2014 12:06 pm

So we don't hijack the other thread, I'll go ahead and announce this here and people can reply if they've got any feedback.

This new option was added to voluntarily remove yourself from the OOC aspect of the game. It does the following:

Who is disabled for you, and other people will not be able to see you on who. You will only show up at the bottom listing of the number of anonymous players.
Prevents you from seeing or using tell, chat, and question.
Prevents you from looking at other people's profiles or achievements, and prevents them from looking at yours.
Prevents you from seeing earned achievement announcements, smites, and blesses.

Note: When toggling option 25, either on or off, a 60 minute timer will be started and you will not be able to toggle it again until the time has elapsed (real time). As a safety, you will be prompted to confirm your choice before you toggle it.

Some additional features may be included at a later time as we continue to evaluate this new option.
Last edited by Jirato on Sun May 18, 2014 6:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Jirato » Sat May 17, 2014 12:20 pm

And look at that, we've already had a change.

WHO is outright disabled while using the option now, and you will not be able to see people who are using the option on your list, regardless of your friend status.

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Avedri
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Avedri » Sat May 17, 2014 12:44 pm

I'd love to know how many people are using this.

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Jirato » Sat May 17, 2014 1:07 pm

There is now a 60 minute cooldown timer between toggles for option 25 (both ways).

Also, you may see how many people are using this option with the WHO command. It'll show something like the following:

(16 players total, 6 anonymous)

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by jilliana » Sat May 17, 2014 5:05 pm

I'm liking it, though I wish the cool-down period could be 30 minutes instead of an hour. :)
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Elystole » Sun May 18, 2014 5:07 am

I love this option. I toggled it on shortly after it was announced and haven't toggled it off hours later, and I really don't want to toggle it off. It's amazing how quiet the game is, and that is really reducing the stress. But even more interesting than that is how it really cuts down on the metagaming. Several things I like:
  • When I wanted to see if there was anyone that I wanted to talk to, I had to pulse and risk that they weren't there. I couldn't just check who and then pulse as a formality. So esp pulse is now actually working as designed.
  • Since I'm not constantly reminded of who all is online or check profiles or achievements, I'm not playing "guess that alt" or trying to calculate respective power levels.
  • The world feels much, much bigger without the channels or who list. It feels a bit emptier too, which may be appropriate for the Lost Lands, but that also means that coming across another player is a more noteworthy event and I pay more attention.
  • Can't really metagame ESP colors when you don't know who is online. It's interesting when an unexpected color pops up and you have no idea who they are. It makes ESP feel more anonymous and more like a regional network than a private PC channel.
  • Finding RP is interesting when you can't tell if your friend has logged off or not before you can meet them, so there's no telling what happened. Which is how it would be.
I'm sure I'll think of or find other things, but those are my first impressions. Call it weak willpower if you want since I wasn't doing this before, but I'm naturally analytical and a trained analyst so if you put data in front of me I'm going to dissect it. Option 25 removes a bunch of that extraneous information so that I can focus on the game.

One thing that I am concerned about, though this isn't a deal-breaker or anything and I'll be using option 25 regardless, is some way to alert the people that you're RPing with that you suddenly have to go AFK. I don't want to toggle option 25 off ever, and I really don't want to be locked out for 60 minutes because I needed to send someone a quick "Crap! Phone!" or "BRB! Bio!" It's a bit immersion breaking, but so is having the person you're speaking with suddenly go silent for five minutes. It's just one of the drawbacks of the medium. Nor do I think we should go back to free-toggling because that was ripe for abuse.

What about something like an AFK command? You type <afk> when you have to run real quick, and it is disabled as soon as you type any other command. Something like...

You <afk>: You get a dull, vacant look as you zone out.
Others: Elystole's eyes suddenly lose focus.
Others <look Elystole>: Elystole has a dull, vacant look about him. (listed with the things like "He is covered in blood!")

When you enter any other command: You suddenly snap out of it and start paying attention again.
Others see: Elystole blinks and his eyes regain focus.
You overhear the following rumor:
"I saw one of those Shadgard folk come barging into Grif's and shoot one of the patrons on the spot. Shadgard must be a pretty rough place with such outlaws running rampant."

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by criticalfault » Mon May 19, 2014 1:47 pm

I really dig the afk thing. i think this is the solid in both its usefulness and its ability to still stay in theme
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Xzean » Mon May 19, 2014 3:11 pm

I second how awesome the AFK idea is.

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Vertebrate
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Vertebrate » Mon May 19, 2014 4:49 pm

I don't like the AFK thing. It's not very... hardcore RP.
Dactor

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Elystole
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Elystole » Mon May 19, 2014 5:00 pm

Vertebrate wrote:I don't like the AFK thing. It's not very... hardcore RP.
Neither is whispering "((AFK))" to someone, but I had to do that to Evelyn today because a guy with city maintenance was insistently knocking at my door and ringing the bell.

And my character rather dislikes it when people whisper in front of other people.
You overhear the following rumor:
"I saw one of those Shadgard folk come barging into Grif's and shoot one of the patrons on the spot. Shadgard must be a pretty rough place with such outlaws running rampant."

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Avedri
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Avedri » Mon May 19, 2014 5:32 pm

I think this is a situation where it's helpful for "tell" to come into play.

While the AFK thing is useful in a pinch, imagine if there was an earthquake or an invasion IC...and your character is just sitting there dull, vacant. It would leave individuals open to attack/general bothering because it's clear you are not at the keyboard. A very OOC experience brought IC.

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Kiyaani » Mon May 19, 2014 5:49 pm

I agree. That's one of several reasons why I asked about 'tell' being excluded in the other thread. IC, even if you have to go afk, going 'vacant' may be horribly OOC for whatever situation you were in. It could also bring up questions for those who don't necessarily know what it means OOCly. If you're part of a lively conversation and then go vacant, people may wonder if your character is okay IC when really you're just unresponsive for OOC reasons.

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Kiyaani
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Kiyaani » Mon May 19, 2014 6:07 pm

I do think if tell remains disabled then some kind of afk option should be available, however, being afk is an OOC status so the messaging may also need to be OOC. This would probably require the messaging to be colored differently or prefaced rather than an IC action. It could post to the room you're in and act in the same OOC capacity as announcements or other such messages. Those immediately affected by your absence would know, but people coming in would just have to assume you may be afk like they normally would now.

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Elystole » Mon May 19, 2014 6:34 pm

Going AFK is, by definition, a horribly OOC thing to do. There's no getting around that. It would be just as horrible to simply stop responding in the middle of an intense scene, earthquake, or invasion. I should know: I once went AFK in just that fashion and got murdered by Golyat while my character stood there like a dummy. It happens. I played it off.

The AFK command, or something like it, would be specifically for those "in a pinch" scenarios: Phones. Door bells. Gastrointestinal trouble. Screaming children. Fire. All of the various and sundry ways that real life has of suddenly intruding into our game time to remind us that we are not our characters.

It isn't something I want to use, but it is something that I'd occasionally need to use. I'm simply looking for the least bad way of doing it, whether that be an IC or an OOC command.
You overhear the following rumor:
"I saw one of those Shadgard folk come barging into Grif's and shoot one of the patrons on the spot. Shadgard must be a pretty rough place with such outlaws running rampant."

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Kiyaani
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Kiyaani » Mon May 19, 2014 6:42 pm

You could also logout momentarily, but then you'd miss any continuing dialogue. At least then people would easily know you were not available and could stop if they felt it was necessary.

That's just an alternative in case something isn't implemented.

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Vertebrate » Tue May 20, 2014 7:39 am

Yeah, its a tough situation. You could just log out.
AFK: earthquake and tsunami, running from godzilla, BRB
Dactor

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by baerden » Thu May 22, 2014 2:50 pm

I think the AFK command that Elystole has suggested is a great idea. I will respond to a few of the rebuttals and another reason why I think it would be a good thing for the MUD to implement.

To those that think an AFK command is ooc and is giving you ooc knowledge, I would say that if you're going to use that logic, then all commands that allow our characters to act in anyway is by nature OOC.. So, I think that argument falls a little flat, in my mind.

Why do I think its a great idea? For new and future players, it _greatly_ lowers frustration when starting out a new mud. I cant count the times i've been on a mud (when I first started playing muds mind you) and would try to talk to someone who was AFK then log off because I thought they were just ignoring me or incredibly boring.

A suggestion:

A single momentary message isnt really that helpful when we're talking about the issue above. I would like for there to be a message, AND for it to alter our description when you look at a player. Such as:

You see Baerden.
His eyes are unfocused and he appears to be daydreaming!
He is about six feet tall and appears to be an adult. He has unkempt shoulder-length dark brown hair
and thoughtful dark green eyes. His lower face is hidden by a tan linen face-mask embroidered with
a contrasting pattern. His skin is tan and his body's build is athletic.
Your right hand is scraped.
Your left leg is scraped.
Your left foot is scraped.
He is wearing a raven feather and bone headdress (scuffed), a tan linen face-mask embroidered with a
contrasting pattern, a hard dark leather gorget, a hooded cloak fashioned of thick dark green wool
over a hard dark leather breastplate, a brass-throated tan leather sack and a pleated natural linen
satchel suspending leather-strung totems and beads, a single-strapped leather backpack, some hard
dark leather bracers, a pair of hard dark leather gauntlets (scuffed), some hard dark leather
greaves (battered) strapped over some dusty brown buckskin pants bound with a braided leather belt
adorned at the buckle with a squirrel skull with a burnished leather haft-frog carrying a keen-edged
steel handaxe with a soft leather-wrapped grip, a leather-strapped cylindrical quiver carved from
bone, a cylindrical smooth aspen vasculum and a drawstring leather pouch attached to it and a pair
of hard dark leather boots.

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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Rithiel » Thu May 22, 2014 4:00 pm

In my mind, the problem with allowing somebody to be daydreaming is that they can scroll up and notice everything that went on around them, which means they weren't really daydreaming.

The best option is to not go AFK in public. It honestly surprises me how many people log in and go AFK (generally multi-mudding from what I can tell). It's more than a bit frustrating from a GM standpoint to look out, see a bunch of people on, but then have nobody respond to anything that happens in game because they're actually AFK.

Of course I know that things come up that make you need to go AFK in the middle of a conversation or RP, but the best option might be to log out if you have tells disabled. A log out in the middle of a conversation is just as glaring as somebody randomly going all glassy eyed when they were just intently talking to you.
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Rias » Thu May 22, 2014 5:02 pm

Another option to consider: if someone has suddenly stopped responding for no apparent reason, or is unresponsive when you come across them and try to initiate interaction, just assume they went AFK (really, what other explanation is there?). I think we all realize that if you go AFK in the middle of interaction, it's for a good reason. If they end up AFK for more than a minute or so, I'd suggest you just go about your business and check back with them later (or just wait it out if you have nothing else pressing to do), and in the case of the AFK-er, say something on ESP (or just pulse) to indicate that you're back if the person(s) you were interacting with have left by the time you get back to your keyboard.

I think it'd be more jarring to be having an animated conversation with Evelyn and then suddenly see her start staring into space with glassy eyes. Then it becomes an IC thing. What kind of strange condition has Evelyn been afflicted with that she suddenly zones out mid-conversation, or mid-battle, or whatever? Should we recommend she get more rest, or see Hildibrand, or eat more emberberries which are believed to be good at clearing thoughts and the mind? Should we be concerned? Should we take action in an effort to rouse her from this stupor? I say no: Because it's ultimately an OOC thing (and an unavoidable one, I certainly admit - I have go to AFK often enough myself). AFK is OOC, and I don't think we need to bring it IC. I think that would just make things worse and more awkward (and honestly, a little bit creepy). As things are now, if someone suddenly stops responding for whatever reason, I don't visualize that ICly their character is standing there still as a statue, staring into space. I either assume they're doing various minor, vague things (glancing around the area, looking over their gear, adjusting their armor, etc.), or I just pretend the gap never happened ICly and retcon it out of my mind. I certainly think that's better than commenting ICly on it, like saying "Did you fall asleep on your feet?" or something like that.
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Re: Option 25 (RPHardcore)

Post by Kent » Fri May 23, 2014 9:45 pm

Elystole wrote:Going AFK is, by definition, a horribly OOC thing to do. There's no getting around that. It would be just as horrible to simply stop responding in the middle of an intense scene, earthquake, or invasion. I should know: I once went AFK in just that fashion and got murdered by Golyat while my character stood there like a dummy. It happens. I played it off.

The AFK command, or something like it, would be specifically for those "in a pinch" scenarios: Phones. Door bells. Gastrointestinal trouble. Screaming children. Fire. All of the various and sundry ways that real life has of suddenly intruding into our game time to remind us that we are not our characters.

It isn't something I want to use, but it is something that I'd occasionally need to use. I'm simply looking for the least bad way of doing it, whether that be an IC or an OOC command.
Elystole nailed it here, fully agreed.
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