Storage space

Artisans of the Western Coalition, specializing in resource-gathering and crafting.
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Storage space

Post by sona » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:47 pm

I feel this topic probably affects Artisans the most, so I'm posting here. Why do we need so much storage space?

Because we store rare materials: Leather, wood, Cobalt, bloodglass, steel, riversteel, rarer gems such as diamonds, sapphires, emeralds, rubies in great assortment of colors. And that's before we start in with what sort of stock we like to have in hold for gear for sale: likely one of each exquisite quality steel weapon and armor that we can make (exquisite, steel being the most requested quality/material). And lets note, this is just for PC things. This doesn't include what we might want to store or keep on hand for personal stuff. Nor does it account for some players preferences to work with NPCs and NPC organizations to want to do things that our characters might like to pursue. Lets say I want to make 100 suits of exquisite steel platemail for Haiban's guards, this becomes an issue because of storage, sure, I can do this piece by piece, but can I fire off a mail to Jirato and ask him to recount what i've donated already? That seems a poor solution. I could write it down, but I am prone to losing track of such information if I'm doing it piece by piece by piece. Instead, I'd prefer to do this as, at minimum: donate 5 full suits of exquisite steel platemail. And I can reasonably keep track of that without losing an idea of how i'm progressing.

What are some possible solutions?

Offer some more super large container sizes for the bank, start putting up houses for artisans that CAN store a wagon out front, ensure workrooms contain containers that are able to store about 10 full sets of steel platemail armor, reduce the weight of armours. I say 10 full suits because you're going to want some wiggle room for material in storage.

Now, if I could request, lets try and keep things positively toned, rather than, "OMG, YOU DON'T NEED THAT! I DON'T NEED THAT, SO SURELY YOU DON'T!". We all have different play styles, and things which drive us to play, while, in most attempts to deliver things I would normally find a good move, I tend to feel more and more pushed out of the game and marginalized, because "my play style doesn't matter." Surprise, I wanted to play an artisan in this game, but to me an artisan is an investment in training, skills, time, roleplay, and may actually develop ideas, desires, and a need for more space, and more access than the 'common' artisan, because some may want to do more than "hey, sure, I'll craft Bob the PC whatever they need," and then have no greater need for excess space.

But Sona, you hardly ever do artisan stuff anymore!

Yeah, see the above paragraph for why. Feeling like I can't adequately pursue Artisan stuff as I would like to, to do things I would like to as an artisan, has all lead to driving me away from doing artisan things. Sure, there's opportunity there to do work if I want some riln. But because I've felt pushed to pursue more combat oriented stuff, and because sometimes Sona's just in the mood to smash faces, it's not always worth it for Sona to work with the PC community, unless she starts upping her prices more. Because that means getting out of her armor, storing her armor, getting the materials, tools, and going to spend some time in the forge actually putting the order together.

I doubt there are many other artisans who actually pursue considerable scale production as Sona does, she finds the facilities and storage inadequate. I hope this changes sometime, because making the workroom storage hold less, and the vault change to impose a limit are both things which really hurt Sona's abilities and RP as an artisan. Sure, she can approach being an artisan in a different way, but that way ceases to be hers or mine and sums up to, "We don't want you to play Sona, we want you to play an artisan that does what we want."

I'm hoping the house tax stuff comes in soon, and that perhaps we can work something out in that regard, I'm just tired of changes feeling unintentionally destructive to Sona.

Again, I feel the need to request people who do choose to respond to this, do so in a constructive manner, and ideally not just say that I'm not being positive. In a situation that is to me, quite a negative impact, I've continually offered, and looked for, and opened to discussion ideas that might improve these situations, whether or not anyone agrees with them. I am repeatedly, and often looking for solutions and positives to sticking with Clok, even though my playtime on Clok has significantly decreased over the last few months as so many things deter me, and prove a hindrance to my style of RP. I don't ask for a hand out, I ask for the tools to do my profession with. I'm happy to discuss IC and OOC options to accomodate this, to discuss what sort of fees might be appropriate. To see if these things can be achieved, and how to go about it. I'd love to see more reason to play more Clok related to the way I would like to play Clok, that doesn't really directly impact other people. It doesn't hurt other people if artisans had private forges, with any deal of space, nor does it impose a risk to the economy any more than there already is one.

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Re: Storage space

Post by Bryce » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Didn't read it all, but this may be relevant.
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Re: Storage space

Post by Akila » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:13 pm

I know Akila gave you an IC idea to help. It's just going to take a while to get there so we can do it. Not for lack of me trying though. I wants my Sona back! ^_^
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Re: Storage space

Post by merin » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:38 pm

I’ve decided I’m going to contribute to this, after all, because it’s just I feel things that have to be said.

I’ll start with wagon storage, first. I agree with Brice. It’s a viable storage option, if you chose to do so. My playstyle, I don’t choose to use it is storage – I agree and except that. If I wanted to use it as storage, it is a viable option.

On the side of playstyles, in my personal opinion, there is excessive and then there is viable. In my opinion, viable is not storing hundreds of bars and every single piece of equipment. Viable is also not going in and purchasing every single rare item from the artisan import shop, either. I do understand everyone has the right to play their own way, but, there are just too many things to account for and some things I view are absurd aren’t by popular demand, and some of the things I view as viable are absurd.

Again, just my opinion, but I honestly believe we’re being punished. The newer artisans can’t have a mine they can dig out and expand all they want as some of the older ones can. The newer artisans can’t have their own warehouses to store things in – I could use my house, but it’s a house and I want to, well, live in it. To that end, I do agree with Sona. We do need to have a way for us to have a warehouse or something viable to compete with people that do, because, I feel that by not having the opportunity to buy my own warehouse or mine claim, I’m being punished, because the only reliable source of storage is now being limited. I think that these changes would be great, if we had equal opportunities. I’d drop a couple hundred thousand on a warehouse with a house attached or something to that sort. I’d do it right now and spend the next day moving into it and put everything on hold. Over all, I like the new vault change – I think it need some fine tuning but so does everything else, especially just after release. I don’t think it’s fair that I don’t have the perks of some of these older players, while everything I do have is being limited changed, and in some aspects taken away. I don’t also think I need an exquisite steel weapon of every quality. Shops are a different topic, but, there you go.

I’m just thankful that there are players out there that share their perks, thanks gad and mascond, but it’s nto the same – if they decide to up and leave the game, today, we’re screwed. Ardor, isn’t. I hate to drop names here, but, I’d like to have some of these opportunities, too. Sorry, that went on more of a rant than just storage, and I do except that some of my views, as I said earlier, aren’t viable.

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Re: Storage space

Post by sona » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:02 pm

Yeah, I agree. To me, I look at the issue: space. We're not in a hyper dense population area, the main coalition town just expanded, it should be touting benefits to artisans of all levels. Sure, having 1-2 exquisite steel weapons of all types, and the same with armors is a bit overkill, but lets face it. If an artisan sticks to mostly crafting stuff, once you hit that skill plateau, you're going to need to think of things to do to keep the crafting interesting, set goals, and so on. Doing tasks isn't rewarding in any way now, so we set our own tasks that are personally rewarding to us. For Sona, that could be prepping a large stock of stuff. With large storage spaces threatened, I think we're going to see players less happy, as more experienced artisans start jacking prices up towards 2-3K for a steel exquisite, because the inconveniences of storage and doing artisan activities keeps compounding. The artisan stuff we have in place is excellent for new artisans, people interested in trying out artisans, and people who aren't quite at the point where they can regularly put out exquisite quality stuff (when inferior quality stuff happens, you resmelt it back down, try again, get better, save the exquisites you get, and your stock of materials continually diminishes until you hit that skill plateau).

I think the Haiban mine is comparable to player mines, even if you can't dig stuff out. the inability to take a wagon in is frustrating though, as is having to handcart 15 loads to or from a workroom, if you opt to get a work room. It's more realistic, but to a higher skilled artisan, it's realistic in the way that having a bladder mechanic would be more realistic, but ultimately more inconvenient to play around. I know I've posted about this stuff over and over, looked at it from multiple angles, and I suppose I'll continue to do so until we can get something more satisfying for middling to high end artisans, or until I give up. I really hope that I don't ever give up completely, because Clok's a pretty cool game.

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Re: Storage space

Post by miko » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:08 pm

I am not sure I like the new storage system. for one the prices of crates is totally rediculous. what if a newbie has a few cool exquiet weapons given him/her by somone that small crate isn't going to hold them and he/she can't afford the large crate for 1000 riln. I think I wouldn't mind the walk in storage if the prices for crates were more reasonable. I mean think about it to store a weapon it would cost anywhere from 10 to 25 riln. Now your asking players and they're chars to pay 4500 for a small crate and 10000 for a large one mkes me wondder how much our chars are going to pay for a weapons srack? 1200? 15? I'm not oppsed to this system Just wary due to costs. I don't mind working hard but to work andd no that i'm going to be putting all my coin into storage? It's a bit daunting

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Re: Storage space

Post by ydia » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:35 am

Honestly riln is easy to make, but the containers are a little pricey.
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Re: Storage space

Post by Jirato » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:01 am

Keep in mind you're not just buying a container with the walk-in storage system, you're paying for permanent storage space within their vaults. That has to come at a premium.

The entire system is designed to discourage hoarding. It's intentional that you're not able to cheaply store everything. If you're a brand new newbie, you're likely only going to have/need one weapon, which you're going to be carrying with you, so you won't need to fork over the 1500 riln for a weapon rack right away. If someone showers you with a ton of freestuff, then have them shower you with riln too. :-)
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