Making arrowheads out of softer metals

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Kent
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Making arrowheads out of softer metals

Post by Kent » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:30 am

I would like to request that arrowheads be able to be crafted from many types of metal, the same metals that hilts can be made from.

We have darts in game already with brass tips. Shot is made from the softest of all metals, lead. We can make nails from all the softer metals that hilts can be made from. The metal in the arrow is small and the large part of the force is born by the shaft, not the head, so it would be a totally realistic change to permit arrowheads to be made of, if not lead, then brass, pewter, silver, gold, and the like.
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Jaster
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Re: Making arrowheads out of softer metals

Post by Jaster » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:37 am

What's the purpose? Aesthetics? You're not really saying WHY you want this feature, other than "because I can make other stuff out of it" (paraphrase), which is not a very arguable point considering that there would be no functional difference.

I would say the opposite; it's not realistic to have arrow heads made of the specific metals you mentioned because those metals are one of two things: soft or brittle, neither of which are characteristics good for use in a tool requiring a high-level of durability. The only redeeming quality of using a soft metal for a tool is that when it becomes malformed, which is extremely likely after just a few uses with something like an arrow head, it can be easily reshaped.

Also, it IS realistic to use soft metals for tools for the specific purpose of working other soft metals or materials. For instance, a gold or silver smith using a bronze or copper hammer. This is because a comparatively harder metal like steel would mar the work and make it more difficult to attain the desired results.

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Kent
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Re: Making arrowheads out of softer metals

Post by Kent » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:47 am

Yes, for aethetics and variety. You make an argument based on the softness of those metals as it relates to real life, but to follow through with that argument, we should remove larger softer metal hilts and definitely all hafts (a silver or gold flail haft would be bent in no time and more useless than a silver or gold arrowhead) and we should make lead shot un-reusable. Most arrows should break upon use anyway, if not the head, then the shaft. Nails: hard metals only...a tin nail is even more unrealistic than a tin arrowhead. If we want consistency with real life, we should have cobalt metal being gray, not blue, and it should be impossible to carve anything but a child's toy bow out of a willow branch. Only ash, yew, or elm should be able to possibly yield a masterfully-carved flatbow. We should not be carving flatbows from branches either, we should be cutting staves from the sides of large logs and whittling those staves into flatbows. I'm not asking for consistency with real life, I'm asking for consistency within the game itself.
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Rias
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Re: Making arrowheads out of softer metals

Post by Rias » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:32 am

Kent wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:47 am
we should remove larger softer metal hilts and definitely all hafts (a silver or gold flail haft would be bent in no time and more useless than a silver or gold arrowhead) and we should make lead shot un-reusable. Most arrows should break upon use anyway, if not the head, then the shaft. Nails: hard metals only...a tin nail is even more unrealistic than a tin arrowhead. If we want consistency with real life, we should have cobalt metal being gray, not blue, and it should be impossible to carve anything but a child's toy bow out of a willow branch. Only ash, yew, or elm should be able to possibly yield a masterfully-carved flatbow.
Plus one! Favorite Kent suggestions yet.
The lore compels me!

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Jaster
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Re: Making arrowheads out of softer metals

Post by Jaster » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:39 am

In the context of consistency between crafting systems your suggestion makes sense, but you framed your initial argument within the context of realism.
The metal in the arrow is small and the large part of the force is born by the shaft, not the head, so it would be a totally realistic change
I also disagree with your science, and it makes much more sense to me that the arrow head does take the brunt of the force of impact by simple virtue of the fact that it is the first part of the arrow to make contact. This is precisely why you would want an arrow head to be hard, but not brittle, to provide the best possible transfer of energy to and penetration of the target, and so it can be reasonably reused without excessive maintenance.

However, thank you for the clarification. I don't expect 100% realism, and a game like that would likely not be much fun at all, so if we don't want completely realistic arrow heads and we want consistency with other crafting systems within the game (as it is now) with more variety and aesthetic choices, then it really doesn't matter what they are made from. I cede the point.

And I agree with Rias. I'd be fine with the changes you mentioned, except that all arrows break after use. Again, the science. If an arrow is properly constructed and isn't impacting anything too hard (armor, rock, bone, a tree) then it is within reason to reuse it again, perhaps at a loss of durability. There should be a very high chance of them breaking when they hit something particularly unyielding though. You've heard of "stump shooting", right?

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Re: Making arrowheads out of softer metals

Post by Xanthe » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:09 pm

Kent wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:47 am
Yes, for aethetics and variety. You make an argument based on the softness of those metals as it relates to real life, but to follow through with that argument, we should remove larger softer metal hilts and definitely all hafts (a silver or gold flail haft would be bent in no time and more useless than a silver or gold arrowhead) and we should make lead shot un-reusable. Most arrows should break upon use anyway, if not the head, then the shaft. Nails: hard metals only...a tin nail is even more unrealistic than a tin arrowhead. If we want consistency with real life, we should have cobalt metal being gray, not blue, and it should be impossible to carve anything but a child's toy bow out of a willow branch. Only ash, yew, or elm should be able to possibly yield a masterfully-carved flatbow. We should not be carving flatbows from branches either, we should be cutting staves from the sides of large logs and whittling those staves into flatbows. I'm not asking for consistency with real life, I'm asking for consistency within the game itself.
As for gold, I think in most cases, it would be layered atop a different, more durable metal for a finish rather than being the entire haft, or at the very least, a heavy alloy with another metal to give it the appearance of pure gold without the drawbacks.
However, I am not a blacksmith and I'm speculating on the little I know.

So I don't agree with having super soft metals for arrowheads. Something like gold would bend and distort on impact and just not be very efficient imho. As for lead bullets- they are thicker in shape. I could agree with them not being reusable, but when you have a heavier amount in a different shape, it affects how it will impact someone versus an arrowhead.

That's my two and a half cents.

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Kent
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Re: Making arrowheads out of softer metals

Post by Kent » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:56 pm

Xanthe is correct too...however gold-plating a steel arrowhead goes beyond the complexity level of a mud, as good an idea it would be for a real life scenario.
- Kent "Gunney" Gunderman


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